[HELP] After 2 Mods, Some Voltage STILL Appears at AM486 Output When Unit is OFF?!?

[James_D]

I have read about this problem in other posts and I have done the two mods suggested for this unit (diode disconnect and jumper cut) without success.

Here's what I am trying to do...
I have a projector screen (Da-Lite Cosmopolitan) that has a motor to raise and lower the screen electrically. It was originally operated by a rocker switch with three leads...one common, one for up and one for down. 120V is applied to the switch and connecting the common to one of the other leads results in the desired function.
I wanted to make the process remote controlled...enter X10.
I put two Appliance modules on the household circuit with different Unit addresses (A15 and A16). The output from one of these is connected to the "UP" wire and the common wire and the other is connected to the "DOWN" wire and the common wire.
To avoid the possibility of both of these switches being ON at the same time, I created macros in Active Home Pro for turning the modules on and off...the "ON" macro for each function first turns the other Appliance module OFF and waits one second before turning its own module ON.
Each module works perfectly if it is the only one plugged in. If I plug them BOTH in then turning either one on causes the projector motor to hum loudly and not work...not a good sound.
I suspected voltage and current leak through the Appliance modules and discovered that was correct when I tested with a voltmeter. I had 108V prior to doing the two mods and then 70V remaining after the two mods, but the problem persists.

Has anyone got any suggestions on where to go from here?

[HA Dave]

Has anyone got any suggestions on where to go from here?

My son ran into a similar problem with his motorized screen.

I like your idea of a macro.... but I wouldn't trust my screen completely to a macro.... (and my screen isn't even motorized).

I think I would use a relay to control the "up" and "down" wires. So even if BOTH units would turn on, whichever unit switched first, it would disable the other till the first one turned off. I would then control the relay(s) with universal modules (UM506) (this is a link) That should give you BOTH the safety and voltage you need.

It was my theater that got me into X10. Now I turning on the theater with BVC Voice Command. Your going to love this stuff!

[James_D]

Thanks Dave

Any suggestion about what relay(s) you mentioned to get and how to hook them up would be appreciated.
I can give that a try if I know what parts to get.

[HA Dave]

Any suggestion about what relay(s) you mentioned to get and how to hook them up would be appreciated.
I can give that a try if I know what parts to get.

There are a couple "diagram type guys" here at the forum, that may be of more help with that than myself. But on 2nd thought, have you called Da-Lite and asked them if they have an "X10 kit" of some sort.

[James_D]

I checked out the web site for DaLite earlier in the day. Their RF remote solution is $470 and the IR one is $380. A bit rich I thought...
NO mention on the site of an X10 solution, but I can try a call...maybe their tech support has some ideas regarding the hookup of the two appliance modules simultaneously to control the two functions.

[Oldtimer]

Each module works perfectly if it is the only one plugged in. If I plug them BOTH in then turning either one on causes the projector motor to hum loudly and not work...not a good sound.

If this were my project the first thing I would do before I bought or built anything would be to get a copy of the internal wiring diagram for the device.  From your symptoms the simplest answer may lie in accessing the device wiring internally.

[dave w]

James D

As Dave_X10 mentioned, you don't want to use two appliance modules in the mannerr you were originally,  to power each of the screen motor windings.  Even with the macros you can still have both appliance modules turn ON at the same time resulting in both forward and reverse windings of the screen motor powered at the same time. You can still use two appliance modules but use one module to power a relay (DPDT or SPDT 120v AC coil) The N.O. and N.C. poles of the relay would go to the each of the motor windings. The second appliance module would provide the power to the common terminal of the relay. The relay's use  ensures both windings of the screen motor can NOT be powered simultaneously. I use similar setup for power drapes. Dave's recommendation of using a Universal module and a low voltage coil relay would work equally well, but you would need additional components of a power supply for the relay coil.

[HA Dave]

I also did a little searching.....I hope this (link) is useful. At least it's printable. Please keep us in the loop James D.... so we know how this works out for you.

[James_D]

Thanks to both Daves for your very helpful advice.
The link sent in Dave_X10_L's last post will likely provide some more insights, but interestingly the "X10" solution suggested in this article is the same as mine except it didn't even consider the possibility of both appliance modules being on at the same time which is why I made a macro. It just suggests to use two AM486 appliance modules, one for up and one for down. Clearly the writer has not actually tried this...

I am clear about how the relay switch, controlled by one of the appliance modules, will work to select either UP or DOWN, making it impossible to have both on concurrently. Then, the other module can switch the common on and off and basically become the START/STOP switch. Thanks for that, Dave_W.

Now I look for a 120V SPDT or DPDT relay. I will look on the internet...any suggestions are welcome.

[dave w]

Clearly the writer has not actually tried this...

I am clear about how the relay switch, controlled by one of the appliance modules, will work to select either UP or DOWN, making it impossible to have both on concurrently. Then, the other module can switch the common on and off and basically become the START/STOP switch. Thanks for that, Dave_W.

Now I look for a 120V SPDT or DPDT relay. I will look on the internet...any suggestions are welcome.

I agree James_D.  Appliance Modules can "False" ON, especially during a brown out. Two appliance modules; one for UP winding and one for DOWN winding, is not a fail safe solution (just ask the last drape motor I burned up).

You can get 120V AC coil DPDT relays at Radio Shark.
Other sources include:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RLY-453/500/120_VAC_RELAY,_DPDT_12_AMPS_.html
Usually these surplus outlets also have 120V relays, but are currently "dry".
http://www.meci.com/index.php
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/

Good luck!

[James_D]

I have ordered a few relays from All Electronics as suggested.

As soon as they arrive I'll hook everything up and report back with (hopefully!) my success!

[Tuicemen]

There are many users that use x10 in their home theater setups.
Some examples Can be found at Accessha
Try posting there, you may find a user that has something similar to what you want working!
Note: There are other forum sites with dedicated sections for home theater setups!

[HA Dave]

I'll hook everything up and report back

Thank You.

[James_D]

Problem solved!
I received the relays 10 days or so ago but have not had time until now to wire the whole thing up.
The relays from AllElectronics, wired as per Dave's suggestion, make the whole system work perfectly.
A nice solution for about $3.50 total cost for the two relays. I do need to clean and dress it up a bit so I have track and sockets coming and I'll put it all in a box.

Now I can sit back and control almost everything in the home theater system from my chair.
Hmmm...where is that robot to get me a cold one from the fridge...

Thanks for the excellent help!

[Brian H]

Thank you for your update.