Installed new switch (XPS3-IW) but it trips the breaker when I connect it

[sharrisct25]

Wired it up turned on the breaker and it trips immediately until I un-connect the switch.  The switch is the only thing between my 20 amp 120v GFI breaker and my pool filter.  Any ideas why this might be happening?  Could reverse wiring be the problem?  Tech support mentioned line noise but with only one x10 switch on the circuit it seems unlikely.  Is this a dud switch?

Any help would be appreciated.

[steven r]

Not sure. Assuming you're replacing a regular switch that did work and this isn't a new installation, it might be a defective switch.
Otherwise, if this is a new installation, try a standard switch to see if that works.

[dave w]

Wired it up turned on the breaker and it trips immediately until I un-connect the switch.  The switch is the only thing between my 20 amp 120v GFI breaker and my pool filter.  Any ideas why this might be happening?  Could reverse wiring be the problem?  Tech support mentioned line noise but with only one x10 switch on the circuit it seems unlikely.  Is this a dud switch?

Any help would be appreciated.

1. dud switch - try XPS3  somewhere else and see if that breaker trips also.
2. pump shorted or "leaking" to ground - as Steve R suggested install a standard switch and see if breaker trips.
3. Try removing the XPS3 from the box, and disconnect any ground wire and try the breaker again. If it works you have a ground fault somewhere.
4. Reverse wired? The XPS3 requires a neutral,  so if it got "reverse wired" it is probably ka-put.
5. How many wires do you have in the switch box you are installing the XPS3 in?

Lets us know if you find something.
5.

[sharrisct25]

There are 4 wires coming from the breaker but one (red) was un-used in the old configuration.  White I have directly connected to the pump white wire via a wire nut.  Black goes to the switch as does green.  Past that there is a ground wire for the casing of the pump that is bolted to the box itself.

I will try another switch and a see if that works.  Thanks for the suggestions so far.

[KDR]

sharrisct25

The XPS3-IW is the Pro version of the WS13A. I don't have a XPS3=IW to look at but I believe that the terminal hookups on the back are the same. Either of these switches are designed to work in a single switch application or a 3 or 4 way application. The 2 top connections on the switch marked "CONTROL" are for using the switch in a 3 or 4 way application and is not used when using the switch as a single stand-alone on off switch.

You should have a hot lead, or power into the switch box wired to the terminal marked "LINE". Your white, neutral wire, going to the switch terminal marked "NEUTRAL" and the line going out to your pool pump (should be black) hooked to the "LOAD" terminal on the switch. The white wire coming from your pool pump can hook into the second terminal on the switch also marked as "NEUTRAL".

If you can tell me the number of wires and there colors that are going into the switch box I should be able to draw up a little print of whats going on. Also are you replacing an old switch with this X10 model and is this, did this, turning on and off an outlet out by the pool and the pump plugs into that? Also are there bare ground wires in the box and what are they connected to?

The GFI breaker shouldn't trip with just the addition of the switch unless there is some leakage to ground some where. (wouldn't take much) Does anyone know of a wiring print for the internal electronics for a XPS3-IW or a WS13A?

I posted this before reading your reply post so some of the question you have answered.

^{----------------KDR}

[KDR]

There are 4 wires coming from the breaker but one (red) was un-used in the old configuration.  White I have directly connected to the pump white wire via a wire nut.  Black goes to the switch as does green.  Past that there is a ground wire for the casing of the pump that is bolted to the box itself.

I will try another switch and a see if that works.  Thanks for the suggestions so far.

You indicate the green is going to the switch. Where do you have the green connected to?? Green is and should only be used as a ground.

From what your saying was the pump hard wired with no switch or switch at the pump and now your adding/replacing a switch with this X10 modle?

^{----------------KDR}

[sharrisct25]

So I just finished trying some additional troubleshooting.  I tried another new XPS3-IW and got the same result.  So then I tried a normal switch making only one wiring change by taking both green wires and instead of having them connect to the switch (since the normal switch does not need ground to function) I connected them via a wire nut and everything works fine.

So I am pretty sure I did not get two bum switches, the normal switch seems to work so what was the problem?  As for the questions on wiring here is the breakdown for when I had he XPS3-IW installed.

From GFI breaker.
  Red - Not connected
  Green - to Neutral on switch
  Black - to Line on switch
  White - to wire nut

From Pump
  Green - to Neutral on switch
  Black - to Load on switch
  White - to wire nut

Any ideas would be appeciated.  The setup works for now but I really want to get this thing controled by activehome for timing but have the ability to turn on the pump via a switch local to the pump.

Thanks

[KDR]

sharrisct25  I have drawn up 2 prints. The first is what was original i believe and the second shows how to wire in the XPS3 switch so it will work.





^{----------------KDR}

[sharrisct25]

Excellent thank you!

I will try that tomorrow.

[TakeTheActive]

• What is the level of your "Residential Electrical Wiring" experience?
  
  
• Are you familiar with the NEC?
  
  


• Why are the GREEN and WHITE wires *REVERSED* from their normal usage?
  
  
• Who originally wired the pump?
  

...
From GFI breaker:

  Red - Not connected
  Green - to Neutral on switch
  Black - to Line on switch
  White - to wire nut

From Pump:

  Green - to Neutral on switch
  Black - to Load on switch
  White - to wire nut

TTA's Boilerplate Newbie Electrical Wiring Warning:

When folks (Newbies) ask these types of questions, I personally question whether or not they should even be touching their electrical wiring (no offense intended - SAFETY is the major concern).

PLEASE BE SAFE and STOP FUMBLING - until you get yourself a basic understanding of exactly what potential dangers you're dealing with. 

[Getting ZAPPED, without getting KILLED, a few times certainly gives one a RESPECT for 120VAC.]

Spend a little time reading about National Electrical Code (US) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and get yourself some foundation / fundamentals under your belt...

[sharrisct25]

I am not familiar with NEC.

My experience with residential wiring is decent I guess but it has all been related to common stuff like swapping receptacles, changing switches and the installing lighting.   I am not used to stuff like this where their are so many wires in play and the old fixture being so vastly different.

The original switch was  old metal box with a Frankenstein switch that was ridiculously rusty and closed both the black and white wires when in the on position so it was not a very good comparison to follow.  I just bought this house and the wiring is a mess all over so who knows who did it originally I have already spent thousands having a electrician fix bigger things like kitchen wiring the main breaker box etc.  I will likely have to upgrade the service soon also.  In fact the poor existing wiring is what got me into x10 all the three way switches were wired wrong so both switches had to be on at the same time to work so I am using allot of slim line switches.

As for why I used the green instead of the white it was just a mis-interpretation of what the electrician told me to do when he explained how I should swap that specific switch I guess I just did not follow him correctly.

[steven r]

...As for why I used the green instead of the white it was just a mis-interpretation of what the electrician told me to do when he explained how I should swap that specific switch I guess I just did not follow him correctly.

Let's hope KDR's excellent drawings get you on the right track.
BTW: If anyone calling themselves an electrician ever tells you the green wire is for anything other than ground, get their license revoked.

[KDR]

At this point I don't think you damaged the X10 switches. The GFI would trip the way you had it wired because the low current draw used by the electronics in the switch itself. Power coming in on the line connection and getting its return path through the green ground would make the GFI think there was a partial short and trip.

It is hard to fully understand sometimes what someone has in wiring when describing it in writting. Pictures help a bunch most of the time. Also it takes allot of back and forth questions and answers to build a good picture of what someone has. But its worth it to make sure its being done right. As TTA indicated above SAFETY is the first priority. Not only to you doing the wiring but long term to know its safe and not going to over heat or cause a short that could case a fire. (An electrical arc, even a small one can produce heat temperatures in the thousands of degrees range.)

This tip goes out to everyone... If your not sure about making electrical changes, post your question on this forum and someone will steer you in the right direction. There are several members here including myself that have a very good background and knowledge of electrical wiring.

^{----------------KDR}

[JeffVolp]

I am not familiar with NEC.

While it is a good idea to understand the NEC before tackling a major electrical project to avoid issues with the inspector, a good electrical wiring book available at your local building supply store should keep you out of trouble for most homeowner projects.  Just be sure it is a recent edition because the NEC had some significant revisions in 2002.  Be careful to follow the color codes.

As people have said previously:

NEVER work on a live circuit.  Since some old wiring may have more than one circuit in a box, insure power is off with a voltage tester before touching any wires with your hands.

Green is NEVER used as a current carrying conductor.  It is ALWAYS the ground - connected to bare wires in the box or the metal box itself.

Be safe!

Jeff

[sharrisct25]

Thank you all for the help, I will hit home depot and get a wiring book to make sure I am on track.  This is a older house and the wiring is messed up so I expect issues.  Hell I took down a wall and found wires joined with wire nuts in the wall, no tape and no box so nothing will suprise me from here on in.

That said I do have one other question about x10 given what I have seen here.  Many of the old light switches I would like to swap out are in single gang boxes that have only three wires

white (to the light fixture according to my multimeter)
black (line)
copper / bare

The bare is ground and the XPS3-IW will not work without a neutral connection so am I out of luck for using this switch or is there another way around it or another x10 switch I could use?