Contact | X10.com
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: XPFM for a fan  (Read 60879 times)

steven r

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 74
  • Posts: 2189
  • Halloween with X10
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2007, 05:46:37 PM »
Quote from: Boiler on July 22, 2007, 02:08:59 PM
...The E81964 is the UL file number.  The manufacturer is Halsey Enterprise. ... ...HC-1131 is your model number
Thanks! That's a start.
Logged
BVC let's me tell my camera where to go!
:) Murphy is my beta testing pal. He helps me find problems whether I like it or not. :)

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 139
  • Posts: 6116
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2007, 12:39:51 PM »
Quote from: Oldtimer on July 21, 2007, 12:37:52 PM

I'm not sure what's going on here but I suspect back EMF from the fan motor in reduced speed mode may be triggering the XPFM module back on.  Maybe someone else on the forum can chime in on this discussion.


Don't know where my earlier response went, but I have seen this before and Oldtimer pegged it. Large back EMF spike develops (because of the cap) when the XPFM opens the relay. This is confusing the local control. Interestingly I have had this problem crop up on Appliance modules which worked fine for long periods and then suddenly developed the problem, which to me says perhaps something in the module fails or "ages" (zener clamp?) in the module.

Can you connect a light (40W - 100W or even a 7W nightlight on an extenson cord, sans plug) across the fan leads temporarly? If the problem goes away then the local control is being falsed.

You might try another module.

Probably isn't much help.
Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

steven r

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 74
  • Posts: 2189
  • Halloween with X10
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2007, 01:44:07 PM »
Quote from: dave w on July 23, 2007, 12:39:51 PM
...Large back EMF spike develops (because of the cap) when the XPFM opens the relay. This is confusing the local control....
Hmm.. I wasn't aware the XPFM had local control but just verified it does.

Quote from: dave w on July 23, 2007, 12:39:51 PM
...Can you connect a light (40W - 100W or even a 7W nightlight on an extenson cord, sans plug) across the fan leads temporarily?...
Once I locate an extension cord that I can sacrifice by cutting off the plug I could make a test cord to plug a light into. The XPFM is mounted in a double gang box with a blank plate over it so it is easy to reach. (I have a picture but my editing software to reduce to an acceptable size is on my laptop and my lap top is holding its contents hostage till I find replacement memory for it.)

If putting a light in parallel works, does anyone have a recommendation for a small light that would work that I could wire in parallel and mount on the blank plate?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 01:49:33 PM by steven r »
Logged
BVC let's me tell my camera where to go!
:) Murphy is my beta testing pal. He helps me find problems whether I like it or not. :)

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 139
  • Posts: 6116
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2007, 02:33:33 PM »
Aw yes, the old night light in the wall trick... ;D

Yes the XPFM is just an "old brown appliance module" with attached wires. If you don't mind voiding your warrenty,  try disabling local control. Go to Ido's site or Google "appliance module modifications". Look for a jumper on the board going to pin 7 of the chip.

Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

Oldtimer

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 45
  • Posts: 364
  • Line Noise & Signal Sucker Fatigue Syndrome
    • Oldtimer's X10 Forum Home Page
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2007, 03:00:29 PM »
Quote from: steven r on July 23, 2007, 01:44:07 PM

If putting a light in parallel works, does anyone have a recommendation for a small light that would work that I could wire in parallel and mount on the blank plate?


Here's a possible answer to your question that doesn't involve a light.  The resistor could go in the box with the module but would have to be insulated with tape or shrink wrap tubing.  However dave w's suggestion about defeating local control is a much better idea as far as I'm concerned.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 07:49:57 AM by Oldtimer »
Logged
Having "fun" with X-10 since 1980.

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 305
  • Posts: 13295
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2007, 04:29:46 PM »
I tried a XPFM in a test bed and mine didn't seem to have Local Control. Though it was not inductive just a 40 watt bulb connected and disconnected to the output.
Logged

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 139
  • Posts: 6116
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2007, 05:02:15 PM »
Quote from: Brian H on July 23, 2007, 04:29:46 PM
I tried a XPFM in a test bed and mine didn't seem to have Local Control. Though it was not inductive just a 40 watt bulb connected and disconnected to the output.

Interesting - I wonder if there are different models of XPFM. And,  if it isn't local control sensing , then what is left to explain the XPFM turning back ON only when fan is set on medium or low speed?

I just sent a note to Rye asking about a WS467 problem. If he responds I will try and ask him about this. I am sure it is Oldtimers EMF theory. I have an Appliance module controlling a ceiling a fan doing it and a couple of appliance  modules controlling Xformers which sometimes do it. In each case a night light in parallel with the load stopped the action.

Sign me perplexed
Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

steven r

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 74
  • Posts: 2189
  • Halloween with X10
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2007, 05:36:14 PM »
Since the XPFM is sold for florescent fixtures as well, having local control isn't really a great idea. That said I turned my fan off, pulled the fan chain till it cycled through off and then back on. Sure enough the XPFM clicked and the fan came on so mine has local control even though I'd rather it not.

Quote from: dave w on July 23, 2007, 02:33:33 PM
...Yes the XPFM is just an "old brown appliance module" with attached wires. If you don't mind voiding your warrenty...
I don't mind doing the mod. While I'm inclined to agree that the XPFM circuit is basically the same as an "old brown appliance module", the layout inside my XPFM is significantly different from the online appliance module boards. e.g. The chip is on the opposite side of the board from as the other components and turned 90o. I'd be guessing as to what lead to cut.

So what size resistor do you recommend and will it effect energy use significantly?
Logged
BVC let's me tell my camera where to go!
:) Murphy is my beta testing pal. He helps me find problems whether I like it or not. :)

Boiler

  • Guest
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2007, 05:45:53 PM »
steven,

Installed 2 of these on ceiling fans for my father ~ 2 years ago.  If they had local control (I don't believe they did) his fans didn't activate it.  The fans are about 15" in the air and are run at mid speed.

I definitely agree that having active control on this unit is more of a detriment than a asset.  The X10pro site lists nothing about local control for the unit.

Another case of a module being "enhanced" without a model change/notice?

If you and Brian_H could post date codes and firmware versions, I'll add them to the database.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 11:30:30 AM by Boiler »
Logged

steven r

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 74
  • Posts: 2189
  • Halloween with X10
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2007, 08:17:44 PM »
Quote from: Boiler on July 23, 2007, 05:45:53 PM
...I definitely that having active control on this unit is more of a detriment than a asset.  The X10pro site lists nothing about local control for the unit.
Another case of a module being "enhanced" without a model change/notice....
Yeah and some where I think I read that it responded to an "All Lights On" also. Fortunately it doesn't.

Quote from: Boiler on July 23, 2007, 05:45:53 PM
...If you and Brian_H could post date codes and firmware versions, I'll add them to the database.
07A05 for mine. I took a picture of the inside board also.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 08:21:59 PM by steven r »
Logged
BVC let's me tell my camera where to go!
:) Murphy is my beta testing pal. He helps me find problems whether I like it or not. :)

Oldtimer

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 45
  • Posts: 364
  • Line Noise & Signal Sucker Fatigue Syndrome
    • Oldtimer's X10 Forum Home Page
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2007, 07:53:50 AM »
Quote from: steven r on July 23, 2007, 05:36:14 PM

So what size resistor do you recommend and will it effect energy use significantly?


Sorry, I left the URL out of my original "resistor" post above.  I just put it in so look at it again. As you can see this was intended for a different problem but may work for you at a lot less current drain then a night light.
Logged
Having "fun" with X-10 since 1980.

TakeTheActive

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 126
  • Posts: 1047
  • Old !@#$% Tinkerer!
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2007, 09:45:37 AM »
Quote from: steven r on July 23, 2007, 01:44:07 PM

...(I have a picture but my editing software to reduce to an acceptable size is on my laptop and my lap top is holding its contents hostage till I find replacement memory for it.)

What about MS Paint (Win2K or higher) using Image -> Stretch/Skew?

75% -> 75% -> 75% ->

KDR,

Why did SHRINKING the GIFs make them grainy? I would have thought smaller would be sharper, as with viewing Basic (lowest bitrate) TiVo/ReplayTV files on a 21" TV vs a 60" TV. ???
Logged
Low Post Count != Low Knowledge - High Post Count != High Knowledge ;)

ADVICE TO X-10 NEWBIES FROM AN X-10 OLD-TIMER

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 139
  • Posts: 6116
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2007, 11:57:02 AM »
Quote from: steven r on July 23, 2007, 05:36:14 PM
the layout inside my XPFM is significantly different from the online appliance module boards. e.g. The chip is on the opposite side of the board from as the other components and turned 90o. I'd be guessing as to what lead to cut.


Follow the trace coming off pin 7 of the chip, do you find a jumper" If so, try snipping the jumper. It will be easy to re-tack with solder if cutting it does not disable local control.
Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 305
  • Posts: 13295
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2007, 04:28:16 PM »
Mine is Date Code 05A05. Have not disassembled one to see firmware code on sticker.
Logged

Boiler

  • Guest
Re: XPFM for a fan
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2007, 04:32:59 PM »
Brian and Steven,
Thanks for the Codes - I'll add them to the database.

Brian - your unit date matches up with the units I installed for my Father.  I don't believe these had the local control disability. 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
« previous next »
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.