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[timmyy]

I am using WS12A Switches And have been reading the threads but im not too sure how to modify the switch to turn off the curcuit in the switch so the led bulbs turn off 100% .Can anyone help me with pictures or anything . I have read you have to snip the #7 loop but im not sure what one it is. All help would be great . Thanx

[Brian H]

The WS12A gets it power through the bulb or bulbs being controlled. The LED types will always glow partially and not pass enough power back to the LED bulb to work.
If someone has done it. I am sure they will pass it on for all to see.
I believe the jumper you are talking about may pertain to the AM486 Appliance Module.

[dave w]

timmyy:
I do not think a LED bulb will pass enough current to get the WS12 to operate. (I guess that should be a question since it sounds like your WS12 is trying to turn off the LED bulb??).  You might get it to work by putting a 25W incandescent bulb in the same socket as the LED ("Y" style socket adapter) but that sort of defeats the advantage of the LED bulb. LED and CFL bulbs do play nice with Socket Rockets.

[Boiler]

I am using WS12A Switches And have been reading the threads but im not too sure how to modify the switch to turn off the curcuit in the switch so the led bulbs turn off 100% .Can anyone help me with pictures or anything . I have read you have to snip the #7 loop but im not sure what one it is. All help would be great . Thanx

timmyy,

From the above I'm assuming you are trying to add a neutral (white) wire to the WS12a to prevent it from stealing current through the load.

Prerequisites:

• If your switch is a "new" model ('07) it may be revised and not conform to the documentation below. Bottom line - we don't know how to modify it.
• Don't perform any modifications unless you're extremely comfortable with soldering, heat shrinking, strain relieving, and working with line level voltage. The reference on this hardware is actually 120V.
• The modifications described below will render your switch "non-UL" compliant (the disconnect will no longer completely disconnect the load).
• The modifications described will prevent the WS12a from stealing current through your LED's.  However, I have never tested one with a LED string.  Even with this mod your LED's may not operate to your satisfaction.
• Disassembling and reassembling these switches isn't exactly a cake walk.  The power disconnect switch can be a pistol to reassemble properly (assuming you don't spread the actuator, spring, and contactor when you take it apart)
• The PWB's are "inexpensive".  Too much heat and you'll loose the solder pad (jumper time).

If the above hasn't scared you off (yes, I am trying) read on.  BTW - I haven't performed one of these mods in this decade.

Ido bartana's site contains modification descriptions for the WS467.  This switch is electrically identical to the WS12a (or at least it was some time back).

Before proceeding, review the following schematics.   

Schematic 1 shows the 330K resistor connected to the load (blue wire) side of the choke (L1).  This is the "easy" mod.
Link:Schematic 1

Schematic 2 shows the 330K resistor connected to the triac side of the choke (more difficult).  For this unit you will need to unsolder the resistor connection to the triac and relocate to the "white-neutral" connection.
Link:Schematic 2

The neutral wire modification is described here : Neutral Wire

Hope this helps - please be extremely careful,
Boiler

[Oldtimer]

Ido bartana's site contains modification descriptions for the WS467.  This switch is electrically identical to the WS12a (or at least it was some time back).

Here's a link to a more complete description of the  modification Boiler is refering to.  I agree with everything he said in his post.

http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=14210.msg78894#msg78894

I have never used this mod with LEDs either.

[dave w]

timmyy, your discussion of the pin seven jumper makes me think you are confusing appliance modules and wall switches.

The pin seven jumper cut will disable local control on an appliance module, but will not disable the sensing current which will result in an LED bulb remaining lit even after the appliance module rework. This is moot since you are looking for a rework for wall switches. As Boiler pointed out for your wall switch, this is caused because the wall switch does not have a neutral wire and must draw power through the bulb (keeping your LED bulb lit).

Please heed Boiler's cautions carefully.  Adding a neutral wire to a wall switch is not an easy task (like cutting "the #7 loop"), and accidental solder shorts can result in "snap, crackle, and pop".

[timmyy]

Hey guys thanks for all the help so far.
 I am going to get sum help with this tho but i was also wanting to know ( new white =load)(black=light) And now were does the blue wire go now.

[Oldtimer]

Hey guys thanks for all the help so far.
 I am going to get sum help with this tho but i was also wanting to know ( new white =load)(black=light) And now were does the blue wire go now.

The blue switch wire connects where it always has to the wire that goes to the light fixture.  The black switch wire connects where it always has to the hot black) side of the line that goes back to the breaker in your breaker box.  The new white switch wire connects to the white neutral that goes back to the neutral (return) bus in your breaker box along with all the other white wires in your house.  There are probably two white wires in the wall box for the switch that are connected together.  One going back to the breaker box and the other to the light fixture.  The new white switch wire will be connected to those two.

[Boiler]

Hey guys thanks for all the help so far.
 I am going to get sum help with this tho but i was also wanting to know ( new white =load)(black=light) And now were does the blue wire go now.

timmyy,

I'm sorry, but your last post scares the heck out of me.  I'd love to sit down and walk you through this, but that's simply not possible.

This modification requires a certain level of understanding and practical experience that we can't give you in a forum.  Please do not do this.  It poses both an immediate and a long term safety risk if not performed properly.

To answer your original question -
Black - hot 120V (to the black wire in your house wiring)
White - neutral (to the white wire in your house wiring)
Blue - load (normally a black wire to your load circuit).

[timmyy]

So this now doesnt seem to be an easy as i may have thought i wouls be so who would like to help me out with my switches now.

[dave w]

So this now doesnt seem to be an easy as i may have thought i wouls be so who would like to help me out with my switches now.

Based on your February 12, 2008, 04:43:22 pm  post, you do not have neutral wires in your wall boxes, so modifying the WS12 switches for a neutral will be no help to your problem. Instead, un-install your WS12A switch and replace with your old mechanical switch and use "Socket Rockets" to control your LED lights.

[timmyy]

Those socket rockets would most likely work but not for what im doing . I have pot lights in my ceiling with par 20 led bulbs(60 led's per bulb). They give awsome light but dam there bright. Now im realy stumped what to do. Any more ideas. But thanx for the help so far im learning lots so far. but now I got a pile of Ws12a switches I no longer have use for . lol

[HA Dave]

...........I have pot lights in my ceiling....

If you cut the power to your lights, then remove the bulb and pot light's fixture trim.. you should see the pot lights have an internal height/depth adjustment... most do. That should allow you any depth/height adjustment you might need to make the SocketRockets work.

I also use LED's and have been using the SocketRockets to get a "complete off".

[timmyy]

Great idea but im using shallow pot lights and there is no adjustment. Is there any other switches out there I can use with led bulbs my main remote is a Logitech Harmony 880. I wouls rather keep the led's that keep the switches.

[dave w]

Ah-ha! Now we understand that you want to DIM your LED lights. Yup that excludes the Socket Rockets. It sounds like you are out of options unless you:
!. Go to an XPDF wired in controller at each fixture. 
or
2. Have an electrician run a neutral wire to each switch box. Even then, you might want to go to a XPD3 switch and sell your WS12s on eBay.
http://www.x10pro.com/pro/catalog/receivers.html#wire

BTW and FWIW, your multiple LED spots will tolerate dimming. However I found out the hard way that the (also very bright) 120V single LED spots, using Cree and Luxeon single LEDs, do NOT like to be dimmed. The one Luxeon unit I had used a switching power supply in the bulb base which when dimmed slightly, generated enough heat to unsolder componets.