Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Is phase coupler always "needed"  (Read 4315 times)

paul warshawsky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 5
  • Posts: 102
Is phase coupler always "needed"
« on: April 24, 2008, 07:30:08 PM »

I'm about to have an electrician install a coupler repeater in my home.  He asked what kind (make) of breaker-box I have so he could bring the right breakers.  While looking at the box I noticed it clearly said "1-phase 3-wire".  My house is 3000 sq. feet (1000 each on 3 levels).  I have pretty good reliability (when things are working) but I have noticed a few lights that occasionally fail to respond - I'm assuming this is a phase issue.  Am I misinterpreting what the circuit box says?  The breakers do seem to be arranged in pairs with the 240VAC appliances having a double breaker.

Thanks for the help.

Paul
Logged

x10challanged

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 5
  • Posts: 102
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 08:19:59 PM »

Your electrician may be asking for model and amp i.e. GE 200AMP,  This information should be either on the top of the inside door on the paper list of breakers or at the top lip of the box stamped in the metal.  This will tell him if the curcuit breakers are one or two pronged, snap in or tight nut type.
Logged

KDR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 53
  • Posts: 758
    • Home Automation Chat
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 08:32:30 PM »

Hi paul warshawsky

To answer your question in the simplest terms NO

There are certain things that could exist that would mean no coupler would be needed. If your X10 PLC signal is strong and the outside transformer that supplies your home with power is very close then the signal could cross over by way of the transformer and you would have no problems with phases. If the transformer is a few poles down the road then it is unlikely that the PLC signal will cross over by way of the transformer because of the distance the signal has to run.

Your circuit box breaker layout is most likely laid out to help balance the load on each leg of power coming in.

As far as some X10 devices working and not working you may want to look at either a noise problem or a signal sucking device causing the problem. Take notice to what electrical devices are on when you have problems and if they are off when X10 works. Things like wall warts used for game systems or phone chargers could cause noise or suck signals down to nil. If this is the case a simple filter in-line with the device could fix the problem. I have a Game Cube that causes a light module to quit working if plugged in to a certain outlet. A plug-in filter fixed the problem.

I would caution you on installing a Coupler/Repeater because it could cause a firestorm of repeated signals that could mess up a lot of X10 devices. Your better choice would be a XTB Signal Booster which I would recommend to anyone with 3000 sq. ft or more of space. This device can help assure a 100% reliable system as far as everything getting the PLC signal 100% of the time.

I'm sure some others will offer some things I may have over looked as most everyone here on the forums are very helpful and willing to help. No matter what the outcome turns out to be remember... have fun  ;D

----------------KDR
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 03:12:48 PM by JeffVolp »
Logged
Note: "Guests" may read the X10 forum , but you must register to post!

When I'm online you can find me in the Home Automation Chat Room!

Walt2

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 28
  • Posts: 787
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 08:31:24 AM »


I would caution you on installing a Coupler/Repeater because it could cause a firestorm of repeated signals that could mess up a lot of X10 devices.

Sad, but true.   :'(
Logged
* Sears Home Control System, Radio Shack Plug 'n Power, NuTone, Stanley LightMaker, BSR, HomeLink.
* Tecmar Device Master, CP290 (LightHouse), CM11A (AH), CM14A (AH2), CM15A (AHPro).

paul warshawsky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 5
  • Posts: 102
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 10:08:52 AM »

I probably didn't make my question clear.  The question is: Is there any possibility that my home is not on two phases?  (Given the "1-phase 3-wire" designation written on my breaker box.)

Thanks,

Paul
Logged

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 139
  • Posts: 6116
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 12:09:49 PM »

I probably didn't make my question clear.  The question is: Is there any possibility that my home is not on two phases?  (Given the "1-phase 3-wire" designation written on my breaker box.)

Thanks,

Paul
Terminology becomes confusing. Technically from the power company's perspective they are feeding your "pole transformer" one phase. The pole transformer (or "big green metal box in the front yard" if you have underground electrical service) splits that one phase into two 120V feeds of opposite polarity or "180 degrees out of phase" which is where the "Two phase" description originates.

If you have a typical house, in a typical neighborhood and one electric meter, then your electrician (as already pointed out) is asking for the manufacturer and size of your electrical panel. ie "its a GE 200 AMP model 123" or "its a Cutler Hammer 150Amp, model XYZ" etc. He is asking because each manufacturer makes different configuration for the breakers (GE breaker only fits in a GE panel box etc.),  and he needs to get the right manufacturer and and panel model to pick out the correct breakers at Home Depot. 

Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

steven r

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 74
  • Posts: 2189
  • Halloween with X10
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 01:40:10 PM »

....I would caution you on installing a Coupler/Repeater because it could cause a firestorm of repeated signals that could mess up a lot of X10 devices. Your better choice would be a XTB Signal Booster ....
This can't be repeated enough! Pun not intended but 'enjoy' it anyway.  ;)
If a signal is repeated while or after the original signal is still being sent, multiple problems can happen. You're inviting Murphy to move into your house. A true booster or coupler booster such as some of the Smarthome products or Jeff's extremely well researched and designed XTB products actually do a real time boost of the signal as it is happening.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 09:39:45 AM by JeffVolp »
Logged
BVC let's me tell my camera where to go!
:) Murphy is my beta testing pal. He helps me find problems whether I like it or not. :)

paul warshawsky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 5
  • Posts: 102
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 05:30:18 PM »

Unfortunately, I've already got the coupler/repeater.  I'll give a try and see how it works out.  If there is a problem I can always turn off the circuit...

I'll let you know how it goes.

Paul
Logged

paul warshawsky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 5
  • Posts: 102
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 07:19:52 PM »

Well I'm about to find out if the XPCR helps or not.  I have one last question from the electrician. Should he install two single breakers one double breaker?  Does it matter?  Does anyone know?

Paul
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 305
  • Posts: 13295
Re: Is phase coupler always "needed"
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 08:42:46 PM »

Not sure about the code in your area.
I would go for the dual or ganged one. That way if one trips both phases are disconnected.
Logged
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.