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[forhabi]

Hello folks… newbie here, so please bear with me… I have a potential solution but I help to confirm if this is best way to do this and if any/which of the X-10 modules make sense.

We have an old house, it’s a 1962 Eichler, which poses a big problem since we have a tar and gravel roof with all the wiring under the T&G and all the plumbing in the slab. We got the house recently and I’m doing some DIY improvements on the place. We are also considering removing one small section of the wall which has all the wiring… and now the relevance to the X-10 stuff.

I have two potential uses for the x-10 modules + slimline wall switch.

1.   I need to move two wall light switches from one side of the wall to the other. I cannot run new cable from the main junction box so using the traditional approach I would need a junction box in the wall for the wire extension to the location of the desired switch. I was considering using a couple of x-10 modules in a junction box in the wall and then having a remote switch to control them.

2.   The wall we want to remove has the wires dropping in from the ceiling. I was considering opening up the roof a little bit, pulling these wires out and into a water tight outdoor junction box. Inside this junction box I was thinking about using another few x-10 modules.

Questions I had were –
1.   Will this work? Is there a better way to do this?
2.   Are the x-10 modules ok to have in junction boxes inside the wall/on the roof? I have heard some ppl on the forum talk about the switches heating up.
3.   How do I install the x-10 module? Would I be able to simply connect it to the wire in the wall and the output of that to the load (bulb)?
4.   If this makes sense, what x-10 module do I need? All these switches will be used to run CFL bulbs (trying to save on the energy bill). One of them will run two sets of track lights. What is the Pro series?
5.   I’m assuming I need only one transceiver module, but what is the difference between the “Pro” and the std transceiver?

[forhabi]

Anyone... someone please help !! Where are all the experts when you need one

Does anyone know if X-10 has a customer service dept that can help?

[HA Dave]

We have an old house, it’s a 1962 Eichler....

Congratulations on the ownership of such a fine historic home. I hope you can find a "Eichler specialist" to help you with your plans.

.................. I would need a junction box in the wall for the wire extension to the location of the desired switch. I was considering using a couple of x-10 modules in a junction box in the wall and then having a remote switch to control them.

I would re-think the solution. Well actually let me restate that. I would never but a junction box IN a wall (even if it meets code in your area)... and wouldn't even consider putting a module in it.

.........The wall we want to remove has the wires dropping in from the ceiling. I was considering opening up the roof a little bit, pulling these wires out and into a water tight outdoor junction box. Inside this junction box I was thinking about using another few x-10 modules.

If the waterproof outside junction box was mounted in an accessable outside area... I would consider putting a wired-in (in-line) X10 module in it. I think that would be a proper use. A junction box on a roof.... unless it's for Christmas lights... I wouldn't do that.

Questions I had were –
1.   Will this work? Is there a better way to do this?
2.   Are the x-10 modules OK to have in junction boxes inside the wall/on the roof? I have heard some ppl on the forum talk about the switches heating up.
3.   How do I install the x-10 module? Would I be able to simply connect it to the wire in the wall and the output of that to the load (bulb)?
4.   If this makes sense, what x-10 module do I need? All these switches will be used to run CFL bulbs (trying to save on the energy bill). One of them will run two sets of track lights. What is the Pro series?
5.   I’m assuming I need only one transceiver module, but what is the difference between the “Pro” and the std transceiver?

IMHO.... You need a (Eichler) pro to look at your wiring. From what I have read about Eichler's... the wiring is the biggest limitation. I have fished MILES of wires in my day... and there are many ways to do that. You can find books on the subject at your local Home Depot or other home improvement store.

But your dealing with a "special" home. You could put a lot of time, effort, and money into making your home worth less. Certainly there are "Eichler Clubs" that could be a better guide with your remodeling plans.

[forhabi]

Dave thanks for the response...really appreciate it.
Yeah we are really excited and even though we did our research before we bought the Eichler we learn something new every day. We did talk to bunch of Eichler "specialist” but unfortunately got different answers from most. there's also a good wensite (www.eichlernetwork.com) but wasnt able to get any info from there.

Since the electric wires are under the Tar and gravel the only way to move a switch is to install a junction box in the wall with the face plate painted over to blend into the wall. The additional wire needed to move the switch is then pull from the junction box to the location of the switch. To do this we need to drill holes in the wall and also from the roof into the wall, and I really want to avoid this. The best time they say to change the wiring in an Eichler is when the roof is replaced, and we unfortunately dont have the budget for it right now.

As for the junction box in the wall and on the roof, you would not recommend this because this would be a firehazard?
Are the X-10 modules meant to be kept outside due to heat generation? If I were to have an accessible junction box could I then use an x-10 module in there?

habi

[KDR]

As for the junction box in the wall and on the roof, you would not recommend this because this would be a firehazard?
Are the X-10 modules meant to be kept outside due to heat generation? If I were to have an accessible junction box could I then use an x-10 module in there?

habi

Your local electrical codes would dictate if it is allowed or not. Here in Cleveland Ohio, city code says any electrical junction boxes have to be accessible and can not be covered over. You can not locate one in an area where a device is needed to gain access to it. (such as a ladder or box to climb up on. This is for residential applications). Regardless of what national code says, local communities can over ride it and add there own requirements. This is why one should always check with your local code requirements for anything.

The use of junction boxes are not a firehazard if done correctly. Under normal use and following X10's recommendations for load ratings I have found that none of the modules I use create excessive heat that I would be concerned about. Your best bet is to find out whats allowed in your area and follow those requirements. Be sure the work is done by a qualified person. I did not say licensed electrician because some locations allow home owners to do there own work. Here in my area I can do electrical work (not licensed) as long as I don't charge for my services and all work passes local codes and the inspector. It is done this way here to allow people to help friends and family for free



^{----------------KDR}

[HA Dave]

................... Regardless of what national code says, local communities can over ride it and add there own requirements. This is why one should always check with your local code requirements for anything.

I agree with KDR completely! Except I go a step further.... I have found (in years past) that my local codes are sometimes behind the curve (slow to update codes around new-found hazards). In which case... I use the national standards... if it is the more restrictive[/b]. I strive for the safest surest job I can do.

As for the junction box in the wall and on the roof, you would not recommend this because this would be a firehazard?
Are the X-10 modules meant to be kept outside due to heat generation? If I were to have an accessible junction box could I then use an x-10 module in there?

Firehazards are.... of course a natural concern. But also it's important to follow standard practices. Most homes have to potential to out-live everyone reading these forums. It is impossible to predict what will changed in the future (Eichler failed to think of that) or how any changes may effect alterations made today. In other words... good enough may be OK today... but harm someone else 40 years from now.

If you have a wall-switch that is just in the wrong place... you may be able to wire-in a in-line module... and cover it with a "blank" switch plate. Or for that matter you could put in an X10 switch. Then just place a slim-line switch in a better location.

Or you could even go the complete automation route.... leaving much of the wiring as-is... and adding X10 switches, receptacles, modules, motion-sensors and Active Home Pro (with macros and timers). You might be able to make-up for some of the deficits of 1960's wiring.

[forhabi]

Dave and KDR, you guys rock!!

Dave, this is exactly what I want to do for the point 1.in my original post – “If you have a wall-switch that is just in the wrong place... you may be able to wire-in a in-line module... and cover it with a "blank" switch plate. Or for that matter you could put in an X10 switch. Then just place a slim-line switch in a better location.”
I guess I was not being able to articulate it… the blank switch plate was the concept I was thinking of so I can leave the wiring as-is. This is exiting – I’m sure Mr. Eichler will be proud 

I guess the only question I have now is what module type do I need to run these lights. I do plan on using CFLs and each switch will probably run anywhere from 1 to 8 bulbs, I think they are 15 watts for each bulb. Is  “X10 Pro Inline Dimmable Receiver Module” the best choice for my application or would the “X10 Pro Inline Appliance Module” make more sense (since I plan on using CFLs that can’t be dimmed)?

If the dimmable one works for CFLs then I guess that might make more sense in case I go back to incandescent and want to use the diming function.

Also, in addition to the slimline switch(s) and ONE “X10 Pro RF Transceiver Module” is there anything else that I need? I’ll probably invest in a remote at some point in the future and possibly a remote switch for the pool light – that would be really awesome.

[Brian H]

Few points.
The fixture modules need a Neutral wire in the switch box.
CFLs do not work well with dimming switches and the types with relays or mechanical switches work best.
Some dimmable CFLs may work with dimmers your mileage may vary.

[forhabi]

Hi Brian,

CFL's will not work well even if i don't try and dim them using the dimmable feature? Are you saying that the in-line appliance module would not work well either with CFL's?

Do all the modules fall under the category of "the types with relays"?

[Brian H]

Sorry for the confusion.

The fixture modules come in both types. Dimmable and switch type. The XPFM is a relay or switch type and is ok for CFLs. XPDF is the dimming fixture module.

Two wire dimmer switches will not work with CFLs as they steal power through the load. Three wire dimmers [Hot Load and Neutral] may work with CFLs but my tests are mixed on how well they work.

Some have reported good results with the X10 LM15A Socket Rocket that does not dim. I also have had mixed results with them and CFLs.

[HA Dave]

Two wire dimmer switches will not work with CFLs as they steal power through the load. Three wire dimmers [Hot Load and Neutral] may work with CFLs but my tests are mixed on how well they work.

And.... it's impossible to guess how your switches are wired (from here). Even though an Eichler was generally a high-end home... it was built in the 60's... and then [as now] codes varied.

On the bright side..... I often buy X10 "Packages or DEALS".... and I have yet to buy anything I didn't find some use for, sooner or later.

[forhabi]

Oops... i just bought two XPDF's. I guess i can just hold on to them and eventually use them for something else (we're probably going to get a halogen fixture over the dining table). For testing out the concept I'll probably just swap out the CFL's and use some std incandescents.

This is what i get for being impatient - but they had a great deal online 4 for the price of 1 slimline switches and i wanted free shipping

So basically if i were to get the "X10 Pro In line Appliance Module" which says its an XPFM in the photo on the website, i should be able to use it for the the CFLs, right?

>Even though an Eichler was generally a high-end home
Actually Eichler's were built for the post WW-2 middle class / sometimes blue collared workers. It's stood the test of time and i personally love the concept (obviously). I think products like these are really awesome for homes like Eichler, because it makes things possible which would other wise not be (at any sensible budget)