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[tedpoppke]

Hi to the forum;

I'll looking at installing a home heating boiler (HeatTransfer Munchkin condensing gas) for home heat (forced hot water).  Any tips or ideas for integrating the boiler with X-10 or Insteon?

Thanks,

Ted

[dave w]

What is your goal?

The simplest interface is a "Universal Module" to make and break the home thermostat line to the boiler. 

[Boiler]

Hi to the forum;

I'll looking at installing a home heating boiler (HeatTransfer Munchkin condensing gas) for home heat (forced hot water).  Any tips or ideas for integrating the boiler with X-10 or Insteon?

Thanks,

Ted

Ted,

I had a look at the Munchkin installation manual.  I have a bit of experience with furnace controls, and zoned systems.  After looking at all of the feedback systems, differential pressure return valves, and recirculating valves (zone control) all I can say is WOW.  There's a lot to that system.

As Dave_W indicated, this really depends on you automation goals.  However, after looking over the Munchkin system, there is very little that I would trust to X10 or any Home Automation technology (Insteon, UPB, or Zwave). 

There are Zone control and furnace interface panels that are specifically designed for this system.  They incorporate many "protection features" that prevent the system from over temping, under flowing, and short cycling (wearing out pumps).  Some manufacturers do offer Web interfaces (Honeywell is one) to their panels.   

In short, this system is complex as it is.  I don't think I would add to the complexity with a Home automation interface (at least not as a DIY). 

Sorry for the downer, other opinions may vary but in a home heating system I'm looking for efficiency and Reliability.

Boiler

[tedpoppke]

Thanks, I understand the need for firing safety and hi/low temperature controls.  How about just supervising the boiler water output temperature for heat and domestic hot water?  I know I could just break the signal from the domestic hot water at night to prevent it from calling for heat.  I'm thinking about their "Vision 1" control package because it give keypad control over some boiler functions.

On a second note, the domestic hot water tank will just come with a standard Honeywell Aquastat; is there a modest electronic aquastat that could be used to interface with X-10?

Thanks.

[tedpoppke]

My goals:

1.  Take more control over the "modulating" function of the boiler.  This is a condensing boiler, and will produce lower temperature hot water when it is only a cold outside (say 25 degrees) and then crank the boiler output up to 180 F when it gets below zero outside.  I'd like more control over this to see if dropping the boiler water temperature and running the boiler longer would be cheaper than the standard program.

2.  Take control of the DHW (domestic hot water).  The new boiler will send 180 F hot water to an external tank to heat up DHW to 140 F.  I'd like to override the temperature controls and add timers, especially for nightime.  I also have teenagers who take unending showers.  It would be fun to have a wireless X-10 controller and turn the boiler off after they've been in the "sauna" for awhile.

3.  I'd like to pull temperature data from the boiler to pull into a computer to see how the system runs. I'm a chemical engineer (that's why you have to explain things slowly to me), and I'm curious how the system performs.

Thanks

[Boiler]

Ted,

Let me take your last post from the bottom up -

3.  I'd like to pull temperature data from the boiler to pull into a computer to see how the system runs. I'm a chemical engineer (that's why you have to explain things slowly to me), and I'm curious how the system performs.

You're being modest.  I happen to be a EE that transitioned to ME and then to HME (hydromechanical).  Jack of many trades, master of none.

I've never had to explain things slowly to a Chemical Engineer (I have two in the family).  Normally they ask me embarrassing questions that cause me to scramble for answers.  At my age they are required to ask questions Loudly, Clearly, and Repeat them (gives me time to search the memory archives - this rarely works for me).

Not only are you a Chem-E, you appear to be heavily involved in processes and efficiencies.  Possibly a bit of a reach, but you're interested in tuning your system beyond the normal "out of the box" efficiencies".   

Past that, I have no experience with monitoring Inlet/Outlet temperatures (efficiencies) with a home automation system.  To the best of my knowledge, this is still the domain of dedicated hardwired controllers (thermocouple/thermistor/RTD inputs). 

2.  Take control of the DHW (domestic hot water).  The new boiler will send 180 F hot water to an external tank to heat up DHW to 140 F.  I'd like to override the temperature controls and add timers, especially for nightime.  I also have teenagers who take unending showers.  It would be fun to have a wireless X-10 controller and turn the boiler off after they've been in the "sauna" for awhile.

Man it's great to hear someone with a good sense of humor.  I got a good belly laugh out of the teenager ploy.  What I assume you're asking for is a X10 compatible gate valve that would shut off the hot water to the "Teenager Shower".  While I applaud your sense of "Pavlovian conditioning", I don't know of a off the shelf device that can do this.  Most of the electric gate valves that I have seen are 24V and hardwire to a relay panel.  Maybe a sprinkler controller (RF of course) would fit the bill?

1.  Take more control over the "modulating" function of the boiler.  This is a condensing boiler, and will produce lower temperature hot water when it is only a cold outside (say 25 degrees) and then crank the boiler output up to 180 F when it gets below zero outside.  I'd like more control over this to see if dropping the boiler water temperature and running the boiler longer would be cheaper than the standard program.

Once again, X10 tends to operate on events (On/Off/Dim).  Temperature monitoring and control (proportional) is difficult.  To monitor this properly, I believe you would require a dedicated analog to digital board that would communicate with a digital controller (Stargate perhaps).  You're really looking for a process controller here.

Those are my thoughts (misguided though they may be),
Boiler

[tedpoppke]

For the showers - when I hear the shower start upstairs, I turn off the fire safety switch on the DHW (oil fired).  I just have to remember to turn it back on.  On the new system, I'll just have the X10 break the signal from the DHW to the boiler, so it wont call for heat.