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[LittleLarry]

 Hello. I am new to x10 and was thinking of trying to start out with a teeny tiny setup. I was hoping to start by controlling 2 small decorative lights:

http://www.amazon.com/Four-Geishas-Shoji-Lamp/dp/B000VDPAFQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1219385447&sr=8-2

These lamps can only use a maximum of 60 watt incandescent bulbs because otherwise they would get too hot. So, I currently only use 40 watt bulbs, just to be on the safe side.

Anyway, I was hoping to be able to control both of them with the standard x10 lamp modules so that I could not only shut them on and off with a remote, but also, to be able to dim them.

I was wondering if anyone can tell me if 40 watt bulbs can be dimmed with an x10 lamp module, or if 40 watt bulbs are too low to where the dim effect would be lost?

I mean, if I dimmed a 40 watt bulb, would it actually dim from say 40 watts, down to say, 10 or 15 watts, and if so, what kind of increments would it use? Would it increment by 5 watts each time, or decrement by 5 watts every time the dim button is pressed, or would it go from like 40 watts down to 20 watts, and then off?

If I would have to use ActiveHome to get a nice dimming effect, it would possibly be worth it as well. I keep reading about the macros, etc. If a macro would be required to get dimming capability of say 40 watts down to 15 watts via 1 watt decrements, well, that might be a cool effect. I guess I just need to know if 40 watt bulbs can still be dimmed and look impressive while doing so or is 40 watts too small to be able to see a nice slow dimming effect. Hope that makes sense.

I also keep reading about the more expensive LM14A which sounds like I would need to use versus the cheaper $13.00 unit.

Is the LM14A worth the extra money for someone who really wants a nice dimming effect? I like the thought of being able to dim up from off state instead of starting at full bright. and then dimming down, that seems lame to me. Also, if the LM14A is worth the more expensive price, can they be purchased in bulk?

Also, why has this LM14A been discontinued?

[Brian H]

Welcome to the X10 Forums;

40 Watts is the minimum X10 recommends for the LM465 Lamp Module so it should be fine.

I did a short test with an older LM465 and the present model Soft Start LM465.
Both worked fine with a standard 40 watt bulb. On; Off and Bright/Dim commands.
The older one could dim down to just barely seeing the filament glow or even not visible.
The new soft start version didn't dim down as far; before ignoring the dim commands.
Both models; if off and a dim command is sent; go to full on; then dim down. The soft start ramps up to full in about 2 seconds for on and offs. For a dim command if off. I observed a rapid on; then dim down.

Yes both the LM14A Lamp and AM14A Appliance modules have been discontinued. X10 has not shared why they where discontinued so that may never be known.

[Charles Sullivan]

The minimum wattage applies only to the two-wire wall switches like the WS467, where the current to power the module's electronics has to pass through the lamp filament.  The plug-in lamp modules aren't subject to this limitation.   I just confirmed this with an (original design) LM465 and a 7 Watt incandescent night light.

[LittleLarry]

 Thanks for the info about the 40 watts being the minimum bulb to use. When you did your tests, would you say the older version of the LM465 looked better than the new one or were they both pretty good in terms of their dim effect?

I seem to have found a whole thread about the LM465 and when they added the soft start feature.

I am a little confused though as I thought the soft start feature was supposed to eliminate the ramp to full on effect and thus save energy, etc., however you state that both models go to full on from an off state. If that is true, what is the purpose of soft start?

Here is the thread I found about the new LM465's:

http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13006.15

[WALKER1966]

I have used several LM465 and have had great results with dimming the lights using the 40 watt bulb. 

I do prefer to use the WS12A to control My overhead light fixtures..  I have several installed thoughout the hous in the ceiling fans where I have seperated the fan from the light switch using a 2475S from Smart Home.. I did a test using only 1 bulb in the ceiling fan Light fixture and have had great results using the timer to dim the light.

I use macros in My sons room in the evening time to slowly dim the light tell it is off over a 10 minute time.  andd the same to Turn the light back on in the morning.  Seems to do well.

[Brian H]

X10 claims the soft start give better bulb life but not ramping up; on a dim from an off state; kind of kill that thought.

That test was with a HR12 Palm Pad and users of AHP may have some added tricks the new Soft Start units can do.

Also as Charles pointed out. My 40 watt minimum was not relevent for a Lamp Module.

On page 2 of the Soft Start thread you gave. Charles has a link to great finding on how they work. If you have not looked at it it is a big help.

[LittleLarry]

 I think the new tricks that the AHP users are trying is what I may need to look into if I want the nicer dimming effects. Hopefully the newer version with the USB cable isn't prone to overheating like the older version was.

[bitman]

The minimum wattage applies only to the two-wire wall switches like the WS467, where the current to power the module's electronics has to pass through the lamp filament.  The plug-in lamp modules aren't subject to this limitation.   I just confirmed this with an (original design) LM465 and a 7 Watt incandescent night light.

Good.

I read this thread and thought oh no, I have to hack another LM465, cause I'm going to need to control a 7w bulb soon and I can't have the "clack" of an appliance controller in this application.

Thanks for that test.

:Ron

[LittleLarry]

 Wow, only 7 watts. That must be very low.

What is the "clack" you are referring to if I may ask?

I can't get over how expensive these Leviton lamp controllers are:

http://www.smarthome.com/4293.html

$49 for 1 controller seems outrageous. Are they really that much better than the LM465 in terms of what type of dimming features I would get?

The LM465 at $12 seems much, much more reasonable. Am I missing something? Anyone here that can explain the benefits of the Levitons versus the LM465? Any real benefit, or just overpricing?

[bitman]

Wow, only 7 watts. That must be very low.

What is the "clack" you are referring to if I may ask?

I can't get over how expensive these Leviton lamp controllers are:

http://www.smarthome.com/4293.html

$49 for 1 controller seems outrageous. Are they really that much better than the LM465 in terms of what type of dimming features I would get?

The LM465 at $12 seems much, much more reasonable. Am I missing something? Anyone here that can explain the benefits of the Levitons versus the LM465? Any real benefit, or just overpricing?

The "Clack" is the sound of an appliance controller relay activating.
I'm going to turn this on and off. It has a 7Watt Christmas Tree type bulb it it.
http://www.proaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=373_234&products_id=5773

[LittleLarry]

The "Clack" is the sound of an appliance controller relay activating.
I'm going to turn this on and off. It has a 7Watt Christmas Tree type bulb it it.
http://www.proaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=373_234&products_id=5773

Holy Clacks!  Man, that is loud. Is this really how loud it sounds with the appliance modules?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjW5VE49gW0&feature=related

How loud are the lamp modules compared to the appliance module in the video? (I'm guessing the lamp modules are closer to the silent end of the sound spectrum as it would be annoying to hear that loud clack every time you want to dim the lights).

That clack noise actually scares me it's so loud.

Also, is it just me, or does the person in the video seem, well, kinda not all there? I sure hope the person in the video isn't hanging out in these forums, or man, will I feel stupid.

"There's various ways to do it, if your resourceful, and you know what your doin."

That just kills me! Almost in tears from that, maybe cause it's late but, that just hit my funny bone.

I am also quite certain the person in the video is using real velcro, which I am relieved to know.

[Brian H]

Appliance Modules have a mechanical switch in them. The clack is the ratchet mechanism moving the switch. Some non dimming wall switches for things like fans also have this ratchet switch in them.

Lamp Modules have no mechanical switch in them and use an electronic device [triac] to control the amount of power sent to the load.
Appliances and many new type lights [non incadescent like CFLs] do not play nice with the Lamp Modules due to the way it controls the loads; and could be damaged.

There are more expensive modules by other manufacturers that use quieter types of relays for appliances.

X10 Lamp and Appliance Modules also have a Local Control Feature. Where you can turn the device on with out an X10 signal. By turning the local devices power switch from on to off and back on. There is a small current always flowing in the load and the module can sense the on to off to on sequence and turn it self on. This small current sometimes also turns CFLs back on after turning them off with an appliance module and makes low current LED bulbs glow at 1/2 brightness when off.