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[LittleLarry]

 Is this possible?

I seem to have this issue where x10 signals stop working when I have a laptop plugged into the same outlet as an x10 751 transceiver.

When the laptop powerpack is plugged into this outlet, the signals are blocked. As soon as I unplug the laptop powerpack, they go through. Strange. I'm going to strart testing by moving the laptop powerpack to a different outlet other than the same one as the transceiver and see if it still blocks the signals or not.

Does this seem like an odd occurance, or is this common with transformer\powerpacks causing this kind of interference? Is this where one of the filters would come in and resolve the issue?

[Brian H]

Very common.
Most newer power packs are small switching type supplies. You need an X10 filter on the AC input to the power pack for best results. Do not use generic type line filter; many actually filter out the X10 power line signals as noise.

Cell phone chargers, modern LCD TVS and even microprocessor controlled appliances can cause X10 and other automation protocol [Ineteon etc.] problems.

[BaBaLou.]

I have front door Porch light that when one HP laptop charger is plugged in on any circute in the house without a filter, the result is the porch light when being turned off by timer or remote will start to flash on and then off at the same beat of the charger light on the laptop nonstop. If left alone,will do that endlessly. Had that happen one night, upon waking up for the work the next day, there was the light flashing in harmony with my laptop for 6 hours, I wonder what the neighbors thought? A learning lesson.

[steven r]

...there was the light flashing in harmony with my laptop for 6 hours, I wonder what the neighbors thought? A learning lesson.

I hope that if my house goes in flash mode at least 1 of my neighbors will notice before even an hour.

[BaBaLou.]

A single occurrence and a very quick lesson especially with WAF . Besides it was a small light out of 12 in the front, barley seen from one neighbour in front of me. That was when I first started setting up my home system(only a few month ago). Lesson like those are well noted in my case as I slowly add and troubleshoot each problem with a never ending resource from this FORUM. So far all the cell phones and a few laptops are sitting on a Protected power bar with its own plug in filter. Much improvement  but as stated still growing. XTB-IIR in the near future and filters will hopfully put me on top with WAF. or bottom!

[LittleLarry]

Very common.
Most newer power packs are small switching type supplies. You need an X10 filter on the AC input to the power pack for best results. Do not use generic type line filter; many actually filter out the X10 power line signals as noise.

Cell phone chargers, modern LCD TVS and even microprocessor controlled appliances can cause X10 and other automation protocol [Ineteon etc.] problems.

Thanks. That explains a couple issues I have been having.

I ended up moving the powerpack down 1 outlet and then it allowed for the x10 signals to still work for the outlets in question. I will have to look into buying some of the filters I suppose now because with the workaround I have in place, I am using extra cords and using non-convenient outlets at the moment.

It was weird because, even after being plugged into a ups, the powerpack from the laptop was still blocking the x10 signals. I also have a cell phone charger powerpack that is probably blocking some as well, which is why I orignally moved the transciever down an outlet (now I realize I could have left it where it was if I would have put a filter on the cell phone charger). I'll have to do some more tests.

Any links for some combo x10 filters that also have surge protection built in? I need to be able to protect this laptop and cell phone charger from surges and make it so they don't block x10 signals. I wonder if APC makes anything? That is the company I would prefer to purchase from, hopefully all of their devices do not block x10 signals though.

So far my x10 experience has been fun and quirky, but it is more on the fun side. I probably just didn't read everything through because I should have been able to catch the powerpack reference somewhere. I wonder if it is in any of the x10 user manuals. I should go through them a little better.

I plan to order a few more lamp modules and possibly the cm15a soon.

[steven r]

...I ended up moving the powerpack down 1 outlet and then it allowed for the x10 signals to still work for the outlets in question....

Considered yourself lucky. I wouldn't of expected that to work.

...It was weird because, even after being plugged into a ups, the powerpack from the laptop was still blocking the x10 signals. I also have a cell phone charger powerpack that is probably blocking some as well, which is why I orignally moved the transciever down an outlet (now I realize I could have left it where it was if I would have put a filter on the cell phone charger). I'll have to do some more tests....

UPS units themselves can be signal suckers also.
I use a cheap outlet strip plugged into a filter as my charging station for batteries - phone & assorted other things. Side advantage is that I now have all my chargers in one place.

...I plan to order a few more lamp modules and possibly the cm15a soon....

Let the fun begin! You'll find the CM15A to be a very powerful tool and you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

[LittleLarry]

Considered yourself lucky. I wouldn't of expected that to work.

I should clarify this however, by down, I meant over to the next electrical outlet (10 feet away). Sort of like, the next electrical outlet down the way, or down the hall, closer to the other wall, etc.  (not down as in the lower outlet on a standard 2 plugin outlet). I haven't run into the issue as the one user did that plugged the powerpack into any electrical outlet and caused the light to blink, but now that I know what these powerpacks can do for x10, I'll have to be much more careful.

This is just temporary of course, as I too would like to get the laptop power pack, and the cell phone power pack on a separate surge protector \ x10 signal protector if there is such a combo unit. It's too bad about ups's and other electrical protectors causing x10 signals to be eaten up. If only APC and the other companies couldn't somehow discern between noise and x10 signals.

Is that what you get with the more expensive home automation products? A less likelyhood of signals getting filtered out from surge protection units?

[steven r]

...If only APC and the other companies couldn't somehow discern between noise and x10 signals....

The better UPS & surge protectors are designed to take out line noise. For them line noise means anything other than a pure 60Hz signal (50Hz in Europe). That means they see the X10 signal as noise and try to eliminate it. The filters we're recommending for your use with X10 don't filter at the 60Hz cross point where the X10 signal is sent.

[BaBaLou.]

steven r When using the plug-in filter on any electronic units like Laptop and Cell Phone chargers, cordless phone transformers, microwave, computer, TVs and so on and the job of the filter is to stop any if not all line noise that these products are emitting back onto the power lines, am i correct?. But if the filter ibeing used is or maybe if it was NOT X10 compatible, does it matter . Since those types of electronics don't need to see any X10 signals or I don't have the need for AHP to turn any of those types of equipment ON or OFF.
BaBaLou

[Brian H]

Yes it can matter. Many filters besides blocking noise from getting back to the power line will also gleefully absorb MOST of the X10 signals on its AC side.

[BaBaLou.]

Is noise that may be generated by any electronic unit on the HOT, NEUTRAL or Ground or all in a typical curcut? I understand X10 signal is on the neutral side then just wondering if noise or absorption is occurring everywhere or can it be greater on one then the other line on one circuit? 

will also gleefully absorb MOST of the X10 signals on its AC side.

any X10 signal that may pass by the filter on the same circute or can they also reach out an touch all the way to the panel.

With this said, so witch X10 tester will help more or does better in this type of situation? XPTR or the elk?
many thanks
BaBaLou.

[dave w]

I understand X10 signal is on the neutral side then just wondering if noise or absorption is occurring everywhere or can it be greater on one then the other line on one circuit? 


With this said, so witch X10 tester will help more or does better in this type of situation? XPTR or the elk?
many thanks
BaBaLou.

Nope - the X10 signal rides on the Hot line, not the neutral.

Personnally I like the Elk better than the XPTR, It is less expensive and has better resolution (XPTR has four signal strength LEDs with 300mV being the highest. Elk has a 10 segment bar graph with final LED indicating signal over one volt). I both units have indicators for noise.

[BaBaLou.]

Many thanks dave w for that. Does clarify some things for me in better understanding this system. Also great recommendation for the ELK. another check mark for one of those on my growing list.
Thank For Help Noted.
BaBaLou.

[Brian H]

I have both an ELK ESM-1 and a Smarthome 4819 TesterLinc. Both give good test results but each has a different strength.
I like the ESM-1's bar graph and if I had only one of the two I have. The ELK would be the one.