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[x10dude]

hey all!

I read all the threads I could find on the XPNR and, based on what I read, it should work with my scenario, but it doesn't. Isn't the following supposed to be a supported scenario?

I have an X10 wall module controlling a non-CFL light, which happens to be on the same run as a CFL that I use in another room. I've noticed that whenever the CFL is on, the x10 light can't be controlled remotely.

As a result, I purchased a few XPNRs thinking that I might be able to use them to block this and some other CLFs since I happen to have CFLs throughout the house - except where I'm using X10 (bedrooms, security lights, floodlights, etc.)

After installing the XPNR, it made no difference. I still can't control the X10 module when the CFL is on.

In wiring the XPNR, I simply followed the directions, which are straightforward - 1 wire to the hot and the other to the neutral sides.

In this case, I chose to use the hot on the "on" side of the switch that turns on the CFL. Does it matter whether it goes on the "on" side and only be active when the switch is turned on? or should it be before the switch and be constantly active?

Is the XPNR not the right solution for this problem? Anybody know? thanks in advance!

[Kramer Chins]

I know I have different CFL's in my house  (some are on X10 Modules) and don't seem to have any issues with them interfering with my NON CFL modules.

I did have a couple Lamp Modules I was having issues with (wouldn't turn on, or wouldn't dim) I found out it was more a "phase" issues then anything. Since I coupled my phases I don't have any more problems with them.

[paizano1]

i haven't used any of these filters, but i did look at the directions and was wondering if you could try and install it in the lamp box, instead of switch box.  Sometimes wiring in lamps connect at the light box then pull power off to go to switch, maybe for some reason by installing it at the switch you could be missing some of the circuit noise, thus causing your problem. Again i have not used any of these, just giving my 2 cents.

[JeffVolp]

The XPNR is a bandpass filter.  Its main function is to reduce broadband noise while still letting X10 signals through.  An example of broadband noise is that produced by arcing brushes in universal motors.  I have several compact fluorescent light bulbs whose internal choppers run close to the 120KHz X10 frequency.  The XPNR would have little or no effect on their noise.  I suspect that your offending CFL is similar.

You have a couple of options.  The nVision CFLs I bought about a year ago at HomeDepot cause no problems for X10 communication.  So, you might try replacing the offending CFL with another brand.  The other option is to install a Leviton 6287 filter in series with the offending CFL.  That is a notch filter, which will prevent noise near the 120KHz X10 frequency from passing through.

While the XPNR doesn't help this particular problem, it is best installed from hot to ground on a circuit plagued with broadband noise so it can attenuate that noise even when the switch isn't on.

You might find this troubleshooting tutorial helpful:  http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfls.htm

Jeff

[x10dude]

Thanks all for the quick responses! You guys rock 

It sounds like what I have is what Jeff mentions - very unfriendly CFLs. These are no-name brands from local stores. I will look at the ones from Home Depot. I seem to be there almost every other day anyway.

FYI, I do have a phase coupler/repeater and have filtered close to everything that plugs into an outlet, so it seems like I'm slowly getting there.

Jeff - would the XPNR be good for something like a fridge? or a fan? or a dishwasher? I have all these and haven't filtered them. I had thought about using the XPNRs for these and possibly my furnace. Is that advisable?

Lastly, as for the n:vision lamps, I will need R30s, R40s, and spirals. Would the wattage matter or is it simply preference?

Thanks again!

[Brian H]

The XPNR absorbs line noise that is not on the X10 line frequency, but is strong enough to interferer with the X10 signals. Maybe useful if you have a noise source that is not on the X10 line signal frequency 120 KHz.

[JeffVolp]

Things like a refrigerator, dishwasher, or fan should have induction motors, and not produce any significant noise on the powerline.  Universal motors are usually found in small appliances, such as vacuums, small motorized kitchen appliances, and power tools.  Some people have reported noise from the new variable-speed blowers used in some HVAC systems because of their electronic controls.

I don't think the wattage is a factor with CFLs.  It is really up to the manufacturer what frequency they choose for their switching circuitry.  The noisemakers I have are similar in wattage to others that are X10 friendly.  However, they were cheap ones offered by the utility company.

Jeff

[x10dude]

Thanks again. It sounds like I'll need to experiment a bit with the XPNRs. I'll make sure I connect them to the ground and hot leads.

As for the fridge, the reason why I asked is because I have a wine fridge, which whenever it went on, I wasn't able to control one light that was on the same run. I ended up adding an AF120, which took care of the problem.

On the universal motors, I'll have to look into my blender then. I have one of those very-noisy "Vitamix" (very high RPM) machines that I use everyday and is always plugged in.

[JeffVolp]

Universal motors only create noise when they are actually running (brushes arcing).  I'm not sure about the wine fridge.  That small unit may have a different type of cooling system than the induction motor compressor normally used in full-size refrigerators and freezers.

Jeff

[x10dude]

Allright, I'm back from Home Depot. I got some n:vision CFLs (a whole bunch thinking that i'd replace all the potential noisemakers) and no luck. I still can't control my x10 wall module when that light is on.

I've confirmed that it is the CFL by removing it and putting an incandescent bulb in its place. With the incandescent, I have no problem controlling the X10 unit while it's on.

BTW, I also tried Phillips, and Sylvania CFLs - same thing. 

[JeffVolp]

Since you tried several different brands, I would not expect all of them to be running near the X10 frequency.  Here we only have those TCP CFLs that cause a serious problem for X10 signals.  The n:vision and assorted others are scattered around in table lamps with no filters.

Perhaps the signal level at that switch is marginal, and any additional noise is enough to cause a problem.  I believe some of the newer X10 modules now incorporate AGC.  If yours does, increasing the background noise level could raise its detection threshold above a weak signal level.

Jeff

[Brian H]

Wall Module? Do you have a two wire wall switch controlling a CFL? If so it will not work as the two wire wall switches steal power through the load. With a CFL they do not work. The three wire ones that use a neutral and have a relay and not dimming should control a CFL.

[x10dude]

I do believe I have one of the newer wall/switch modules, so it's quite possible that the noise generated by the CFL causes it not to respond.

Brian I do have a two-wire wall switch, but it DOES NOT use a CFL. It uses an incandescent floodlight. Again, the offending CFL is on the same run as the wall switch in a different room.

Thanks..

[x10dude]

Just a quick update on this. No matter what I tried, I wasn't able to filter out the CFL that was causing the problem. As a result, I ended up leaving the incandescent bulb as much as I don't like wasting energy just for the sake of it.

[HA Dave]

.... I don't like wasting energy just for the sake of it.

I am no fan of waste myself! You could concider rewiring the offending circuit... it may not be as big a deal as it sounds. Or you could try replacing the offending CFL with an LED bulb. Although... LED's can sometimes also be noise generators.

But.. if stuck with the use of an incandescent bulb. Remember.. incandescent [bulb] use reduces the mercury pollution caused by CFL's. When incandescent bulbs are used to improve a HA setup... that is NOT a waste. There are several different "types" of lighting... [florescence, halogen, LED, sodium, mercury vapor, incandescent...] none are bad or evil. All types of lighting has pros and cons.