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Author Topic: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet  (Read 13831 times)

c0b4lt

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Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« on: May 24, 2009, 03:54:02 PM »

Currently in our home we have lamps plugged in to receptacles. The top of the receptacle is controlled by a standard light switch. the bottom is always on. We would like to change to x10 switches and try to maintain this functionality while adding the possibility of having them activated by outdoor motion sensors at night(deterring prowlers while alerting ourselves). We do not require dimming of these lights. Some lamps have standard incandescent bulbs rated no higher then 75w. Some lamps have I believe haulogens rated no higher then 13w but can be changed back to standard incandescents.

I have searched the forums already for this topic and found a few hits regarding it but don't feel they fully answer the question. Can this be done? And if so which switch or switches would be best?
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dave w

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 06:36:12 PM »

You could:
1. Replace your wall switch with a WS17 wall switch. However this wall switch requires a neutral, so you would need a neutral wire in your wall switch box.
or
2. you could replace the receptacle with a SR227 "Super Socket" Receptacle. The top outlet is hot all the time and the bottom outlet is X10 remote controlled.
or
3. You could put the "Socket Rocket", screw in lamp module in your lights.
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2009, 07:14:07 PM »

ok I'm trying to find the ws17 you mention but not having any luck. I even checked here http://www.x10.com/x10directory.html did you mean a different model?
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2009, 07:28:24 PM »

Ok I am an electrician so I'll try to make you inderstand the electrical part of it.  Currently your lamp does not care if it is plugged into an x10 outlet or controlled by an x10 switch.  Your switch now just turns half the receptacle on which is a very common practice and is used in lieu of a ceiling fixture to meet code requirements.  So to answer your question you can do what the previous guy said and that is 1) change the receptacle to a super socket outlet module model #sr227.  If you go this route you will no longer need the wall switch since you can control it through your remotes or AHP.  Personally I would not do this because you will have a wall switch doing nothing.  2) the socket module you scre into th elamp I don't like because you have to leave the switch on all the time and you run the risk of somebody turning it off accidently and it won't turn on when your timer times out or your macro starts. So my thing would be to change your wall switch from your standaed toggle switch to an x10 device.  Now this is where you have to make a decsion.  If you plan on putting just a lamp on this outlet then you can go with a dimmer type module such as the WS12A but you can only use lamps on this because if you plan on plugging in a christmas tree in this outlet or anything other than that lamp you could damage the equipment.  If this outlet is a dual purpose such as lamp then around christmas time I would use the XPS3-IW basically the same concept without the dimming feature and it is just a contact closure so it's either on or off.  I hope this helpsand if your looking for devices check ebay they have 3pk specials and you can find them cheaper there.
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2009, 07:47:36 PM »

....XPS3-IW basically the same concept without the dimming feature and it is just a contact closure so it's either on or off.  .....

the outlets aren't even dual purpose but this is exactly what i want. just on/off. that's all it is now and that's all we need it to be. now for what i hope to be my final question. the Neutral connection.... is this the same as the Ground wire or is this actually a different wire?
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GregH

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2009, 08:22:17 PM »

the Neutral connection.... is this the same as the Ground wire or is this actually a different wire?
It's different.
Black = Hot
White = Neutral
Green or bare = Ground

At least, that is how it should be wired.
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2009, 08:37:18 PM »

awesome thanks for the info. Ill be sure to have a look, or rather have someone else, at my switches first to make sure they have all the required connections already available for me before I go shopping.  ;D
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steven r

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 12:09:17 AM »

Keep in mind that you do not want a dimming switch, X10 or not, to control an outlet. I addition to not being safe, I believe it is against code.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 01:09:01 AM »

Keep in mind that you do not want a dimming switch, X10 or not, to control an outlet. I addition to not being safe, I believe it is against code.

You beat me to it.  Yes, you only want use a relay switch to control an outlet.

While the outlet may be used only for a light now, you can't be certain someone won't plug another load into it in the future.  That is why the NEC forbids using a dimmer switch to control an outlet.

Jeff
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Brian H

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 06:31:33 AM »

I believe the switch mentioned is the Retail Version [Blister pack] RWS17A; that is the WS12A we mostly know it by.
The RWS17A is a dimmer type.
The RWS18A is the relay type. WS13A is what we may know it as.
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 05:44:04 PM »

Well as I agree with the others the dimmer switch is not the best way to go for this since you can put other things into the receptacle.....but if it was me and I know the codes so if i was to sell the house I would change it..also the WS12A requires no nuetral.....But like the others not the best idea someone can plug other items in that receptacle ie vacuum, radio, etc.......But for me I would do it because I wouldn't plug in anything other than the lamp...no danger other than ruining your equipment if plugged into it....if you want it to dim then use the socket rocket lamp module and leave the lamp in the on position all the time you could even plug it into the outlet thats hot all the time....
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 05:55:43 PM »

....We do not require dimming of these lights.....

but thanks for the info anyway :)

slightly unrelated question about the ms16a .... has anyone ever used rechargeable alkaline batteries with them before? whats the typical battery life?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 05:58:05 PM by c0b4lt »
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2009, 06:07:49 PM »

No dimming required i'd use the XPS3-IW ........Never tried rechargables in my motion.....would love to hear the results.
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dave w

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2009, 07:29:01 PM »

ok I'm trying to find the ws17 you mention but not having any luck. I even checked here http://www.x10.com/x10directory.html did you mean a different model?
Yes, I meant WS13A. I have one or two spastic neurons that keep giving me trouble. Sorry, but it sounds like you have everything worked out

Brian corrected the wrong model number later in the thread. Thanks Brian!
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JeffVolp

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2009, 08:07:26 PM »

FYI:  from the National Electrical Code 404.14(E):  Dimmer Switches.  General-use dimmer switches shall be used only to control permanently installed luminaries (lighting fixtures) unless listed for the control of other loads and installed accordingly.

Jeff
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