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Author Topic: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet  (Read 13832 times)

ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2009, 10:34:32 PM »

Yes Jeff I know the code  ;)  I have active liscences with the NEC and CEC (City of Chicago Electic Code) and ths is to protect equipment not people.  You ohysically can do this with out harmiong people and I would in no way put anyone in harms way.  There is a way around that code and it is this if you change the outlet to a special purpose outlet example twist lock or special prong settings and change the lamp cord to match so regular electric device wont fit into that receptacle then you are in business.  I would not perform the work of dimming a regular outlet in a customers home but I would do it in my home because I know what I'm doing nd wouldn't trust anyone to follow my instructions.  Same goes with generators you can backfeed your panel with a two pole breaker from a portable generator but you must turn the main off in an outage or you run the risk of sending power to the utility pole this is highly against code but it works as long as you follow the directions.  I'm pretty sure the Capacitor mod breaks all the codes in every state for coupling.  Lots of mods here are not UL listed in which if you perform a modification of a device and something happens technically your insurance won't have to pay for it if they found out.....Basically what I'm saying All you guys are very knowledgable people keep up the good work!!!!! but don't downgrade my ability to understand the concept of basic electricity and pull out codes that were intended for the safety of equipment and not people.


Ricky
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2009, 10:41:43 PM »

Oh I forgot that code was implemented in the 2002 NEC code change and before 2002 you could use a dimmer switch.  Not every city/town follows the most up to date code so if your town follows NEC 1999 your ok, but most now do follow 2002  FYI
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 09:15:06 AM »

more unrelated questions ;D

is there a limit of how many ms16a's can interact with a single RR501?

also I saw information about using an XPCP or XPCR for coupling both phases in an electrical panel to reduce the possibility of x10 commands not reaching devices such as an chime. We have three(3) buildings on our property. They are our House, Building A, and Building B. The way they are wired up for electricity is the meter connection is to the House and then there is a line that's ran from the circuit breaker in the House to another one in Building A then from there to yet another one in Building B. so its like this:

House ===> Building A ===> Building B

Dont ask me why it is like that it just is lol.

My question is if i put the transceiver in the House is there a potential for a chime in Building B to not receive x10 commands? if so will adding either an XPCP or XPCR help? and in which electrical panels would I install one in or would one need to be in all three(3)?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 10:10:58 AM by c0b4lt »
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 10:30:35 AM »

Well I am no expert when it comes to questions like this so I'm pretty sure Steven or Jeff can help out a lot more but I would probably put the transceiver in Building B since it is in the middle of the three but I am not sure as to if the signal gets past in all directions or if it must start at the beginning of the service.  Not sure if it signal like this   A<-----B----->C  Would be nice also distance is a key part in all of this.

Ricky


Jeff I hope I didn't offend youin my last post!!!  >!
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dave w

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2009, 01:20:34 PM »

is there a limit of how many ms16a's can interact with a single RR501?

The way they are wired up for electricity is the meter connection is to the House and then there is a line that's ran from the circuit breaker in the House to another one in Building A then from there to yet another one in Building B. so its like this:

House ===> Building A ===> Building B


My question is if i put the transceiver in the House is there a potential for a chime in Building B to not receive x10 commands? if so will adding either an XPCP or XPCR help? and in which electrical panels would I install one in or would one need to be in all three(3)?
1. The RR501 can only transceive one house code, so assuming each of your MS16As use a separate Unit Code, then you would be limited to 16.

2. Yes, you may have both distance problems for the RF transmission, distance problems for the PLC transmission, and phase coupling issues.

From your description my guess is both your buildings are on the same phase (you said they are fed by one breaker - I am assuming it is not a 220V breaker) How far are they apart?

One suggestion would be a repeater at the house, and my recommendation would be for the flame thrower "XTB IIR" which cranks out more signal than the ACT 234 (another favorite of mine) and RR501As (and only RR501s since they are polite) at the house and in each building. A lower cost alternative would be to stick a Boosterlinc (Smarthome.com) midway in building A and hope for the best.
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2009, 01:40:00 PM »

from the House to Building A is maybe 40 feet and from Building A to Building B is 60-70 feet if even that much. And I'm going to assume there's a 220V connection from the House to Building A since there is a 220V Air Compressor in Building A.
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2009, 05:28:28 PM »

Does building B have a 2pole breaker  and do these builings have their own circuit panel...if they do then most likely they have both phases in them....I'm assuming from the house to building A there might be either a 2pole 60amp or 100amp going to another panel which is called a sub panel and from building A to building B their might be a 2pole breaker probably a 60 or 50amp going to a a subpanel in building B....this might help the X10 experts on this forum if you can verify th epower in the buildings...If there are circuit panels in each building most likely they have both phases which is a 4 wire system Which is  2Hots a neutral and a ground
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2009, 05:37:23 PM »

both buildings have their own panel in each. Though atm i'm not sure if there are 2 pole 60 or 100 amp breakers feeding each from the preceding panel. i just know the service starts in the panel in our house and goes to building a's panel then from there to building b's panel.
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dave w

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2009, 12:38:20 PM »

cob4lt

This is getting too complicated. Let me try and describe the picture I have..

You have 220V going from one (double) breaker in your house to the two buildings. Verified by the fact you have a 220V compressor in building B and apparently no other power source at building B. ... so you have 220V (i.e both phases ) present in building A also. You have a distance for PLC to cover of 100 feet minimum, and you will want the the PLC signal to get to both phases,  since you are putting the chime in building B and don't know which phase the RR501 in the house is on.

So I still think a good repeater is needed. Either an XTB IIR or the ACT 234. I don't recommend the X10 repeater...I have had two of them and had trouble with both. The XTB IIR will provide the strongest PLC signal (sorry Phil K).

Whether you need multiple RR501s isn't clear from your OP description. If you are going to have motion detectors spanning the entire 100 feet, you will need multiple RR501s. The motion detectors range (and Palm Pad / slim line switch range) isn't that good (20 to 30 feet is fairly typical). If you only want to detect motion in the house and ring a chime in building B, then one RR501 at the house should do it.
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2009, 05:26:45 PM »

I think your on the right track Dave with his power situation he said he has circuit panels in each of the buildings...
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2009, 07:20:24 PM »

Just for the record, the RR501 can use all Housecodes from A to P and Unit codes 1 and 9.  Because of that, you could use 2 RR501s in the same room, both on Housecode A, one on Unit code 1 and the other on Unit code 9.  It's very flexible.
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c0b4lt

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2009, 03:11:45 PM »

well i finally got the parts i had ordered in and did some testing. so far it appears everything is on the same phase. i have been able to successfully place the transceiver in Building A and a chime in both the House and Building B and activate them with the manual house/on button on one of our ms16a's. the only problem I've noticed so far is after about 84' the transceiver in Building A no longer receives the RF transmissions from the ms16a i was using for testing. so looks like at the moment i just need 1-2 more transceivers and I should be good to go. I haven't tested the switches yet. I'm waiting for an electrician friend to come install them over the weekend.
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ciaccia

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Re: Using x10 wall switchs to controll an Outlet
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2009, 05:45:06 PM »

Good Job
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