Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Duck69]

Details is the source of many headaches and troubleshooting problems.
The thing is that we tend to look at the main components and often times overlook some small detail that could be the source of our troubles.
As an example: Recently I upgraded my 100 AMP service panel at the back of the house to a 200 AMP panel.
Because of several problems the new service panel had to be located at the front of the house. (Don't even ask.)
I also have a backup generator and thought that this would be a good time to install a (manual) generator power transfer switch. We ran new wiring through the attic from the new service panel to the old service panel (now a junction box) for the circuits and also to the transfer switch. Re-installed XPCP phase coupler at new service panel. Tested and labeled everything.

Day 5, it's evening and all is well.
What's up ? Kitchen & hall lights didn't come on. 

Did I say that we tested everything ?
Well we tested almost everything. Didn't bother to test my X10 set up.
Why bother ? It was working before.

So, I go back out to the new panel, checked the XPCP connections and tested it. It's OK.

What the "FIRETRUCK" is going on.

Day 6. OK! Start thinking from scratch. Hours later.......Oh yeah !  The transfer switch.  Split phase !    

All's well that ends well.


So be sure to pay very close attention to DETAILS.

[Brian H]

Thank you for sharing.

[Duck69]

BUT ! Like I said "DETAILS".

Once again it has bit me in the A%&. 
This is what happens when you are lazy.

So, I coupled the phases at the transfer switch & checked the Kitchen light & Hall lights.
Fine they are working.....

Not so fast Fredrick ! 

This AM, home office light not working. I'll be Dam&%( ! 

  OK, I need some help here.

Installed new breaker panel, installed generator transfer switch, using old breaker panel as junction box (guts removed except for grounding and neutral). Have a XPCP phase coupler in new breaker panel and another in the transfer switch.

Half of system is working, half isn't on either PL or RF.

Any ideas ? What the heck am I missing ?

[Brian H]

OK Lets see if this sounds like the setup.

Power from street goes to one of the transfer switch inputs.
Power from generator goes to one of the transfer switches inputs.
Common from transfer switch goes to the new breaker panel with the old gutted box still a tie point for ground and neutral.

Is the switch an automatic one that transfers when the generator starts and the street power gets disconnected for safety of the power grid?

This is a long shot here: I wounder if you have the phases bucking each other with two XPCP couplers. Try swapping the two line leads on one of the two XPCP couplers and see if it gets better or worse.

[Duck69]

Power from street goes to breaker panel then on to the transfer switch.
Power through panel is connected to dual - 60 Amp breakers in transfer switch and to breakers for 4 circuits.
Power from generator is connected to dual - 30Amp breakers and on to the same 4 breakers and circuits.
The transfer switch is manual. For safety, there is a bar that prevents having the 60 Amp (Street) & 30 Amp (Generator) breakers on at the same time.
Common from transfer switch goes to the new breaker panel with the old gutted box still a tie point for ground and neutral.

Notes:
I removed the extra XPCR from the transfer box.
I posted incorrectly earlier. I have the XPCR (coupler repeater) not the XPCP (coupler).

[Brian H]

Thanks for the added data and clarifications.
Will give it a look. Hopefully see something.

[Brian H]

When you upgraded the service and installed the new panel. Where some of the original circuits changed to GFI or AFI Breakers to meet current code?

Are most of the problems on the circuits that can be transferred to generator or street power?

[Duck69]

When you upgraded the service and installed the new panel. Where some of the original circuits changed to GFI or AFI Breakers to meet current code?

Nothing new.
I do have GFI's for where there is water. Such as the kitchen & bathroom circuits.

Are most of the problems on the circuits that can be transferred to generator or street power?

Just one of the four. And nothing has been added to it.

I am thinking of moving one leg of the XPCR to that breaker.
What do you think ?

[Brian H]

Would be a good test and may give more details to this problem.

[Duck69]

  I moved the XPCR but there was no change.
  I believe the problem has to do with with installing the new breaker panel.
The panel is now about 40 feet from the original and that much closer to the transformer in the street.....?

I still don't have any test equipment for X10. So, it has pretty much been hit or miss this far.

Any suggestions at all would be most welcomed.
Buy a signal meter ?
Buy a XTB-11R ?
Buy both ?
Buy neither ?
Go fishing ?

[Brian H]

I was hoping that some fresh eyes may think of something I may have missed and chime in. Anyone?

I would say an X10 Test Meter would be a big help. You know my new favorite is the XTBM.
XTB-IIR Repeater maybe after you see what signal levels you are getting from the XPCR around the house.

[HA Dave]

We ran new wiring through the attic from the new service panel to the old service panel (now a junction box) for the circuits and also to the transfer switch. Re-installed XPCP phase coupler at new service panel. Tested and labeled everything.
What's up ? Kitchen & hall lights didn't come on. 
...........So, I go back out to the new panel, checked the XPCP connections and tested it. It's OK.

This is where I get lost. New panel. Coupler/Repeater at the panel. Some sort of transceiver(s) at or near the panel? Everything should be working. If a CM11A or CM15A is used... after the wiring was completed it was reloaded with macros and settings.

If the generator switch is thrown ON... without the generator ON: Those circuits should lose normal power (I assume you checked them for power). Could be several problems with X10 and the generator ON... but that isn't the problem now. 

So... besides the new 200 AMP panel.. is there something else new? Like a reason for the upgrade... maybe a big hot tub, or small server setup, 65 inch plasma TV, Home Theater equipment, or UPS? Maybe a circuit that was filtered before.. but for some reason isn't now?

[dave w]

Any suggestions at all would be most welcomed.
Buy a signal meter ?
Buy a XTB-11R ?
Buy both ?
Buy neither ?
Go fishing ?

Buy both then go fishing.

duck it appears you have added a lot of new road for the X10 signal. Everything worked when the XPCR was at the old panel. Since you are using the old panel as a tie point, could you move the XPCR back to the old panel for a test? My thought would be if it works again the road is just too long and to put a XTBIIR at the new panel. I think the XTBM will tell you where your problem is.

[Duck69]

The upgrade was for safety. The old panel had 4 & 5 wires wire-nutted together. Found bare wires in walls where base heaters were. No idea what went where. Etc..

There were 3 changes made.
1) New breaker panel
2) Added generator switch box.
3) Circuits that were wire-nutted together were separated & put on their own breakers.
   a) The old baseboard heater circuits are on breakers that are left turned off & the bare wires capped (future use).

The XPCR was reinstalled in the new panel.
There is no transceiver near the new panel. (actually further away now).
I need to have the CM15A where I have it now for computer control and am unable to relocate the computer.

I think dave w, is right. The extra 40' seems to make the difference.
I wonder if Jeff wants to give me a XTB-11R for my wife's birthday on the 21st.
  That's what I thought !


The transfer switch box.

Power from the main panel to 2 - 60 Amp breakers. Phases 1 & 2
Power from the 60 Amp breakers to 4 - 20 Amp breakers.

Power from the generator to 2 - 30 Amp breakers.
Power from the generator 30 Amp breakers to the same 4 - 20 Amp breakers.

Switch box has a metal bar that prevents both the 60 Amp breakers from the main panel & the 50 Amp breakers from the generator being on at the same time.

In order to use generator power, the breaker that gets power from the main panel has to be turned off before you can turn on the breaker for the generator.

[Duck69]

I ordered the XTB-11R on Thursday the 14th. It got here yesterday.
That was pretty darn FAST considering Monday was a holiday.
The packaging was excellent. Upon removing the cover it is very OBVIOUS that the unit was PROFESSIONALLY made.
  Excellent work Jeff.

Now I am itching to install it, but we've been having storm after storm here in Northern CA. & I don't want to be out there.....in the cold & wet ! Maybe this weekend.