Appliance modules and light switches no longer responding

[Appliance Module]

I have had my x10 mintier controlling four different lights or appliance modules for nearly 10 years.  I had three of the old style appliance modules and an x10 light switch (the kind that does not use the neutral wire).   As you know these did not like using CFLs. 

So I installed SmartHome toggle linc switches on the outside lights and purchased x10 pro appliance modules so that I could use CFL.   The toggle linc switch switches would not respond to command from the timer.  It was determined that it was on the other side of the line phase as well as one of the appliance modules.  I turned on the clothes dryer (electric) and all responded well, so I purchased a passive phase coupler from SmartHome and all was well.  Every thing worked fine.

That is until the last two months.  On occasion, the outside light would not turn off and sometimes I could not manually turn on one of the appliance module and a couple of times it did not respond to the timer command.

Thinking maybe the coupler was bad, I did the dryer turn on again, but the response was negative.

To the best of my knowledge, nothing has changed.  Even so I unplugged some of my electronic devices (computer, LCD TV, wireless headphones.  and nothing changed.  I do not believe any neighbor has any x10 devices that might be inter ferring.

The only thing that I can think of is one of the CFLs might be gong bad.   Will try that, but am also looking for any ideas or input from the forum

Are there any measurement that I could make to help determine signal noise etc.   Thanks in advance,

Appliance Module   

[Bill59]

As someone wrote, "Worked yesterday, but not today", or something like that. That's how x-10 works. I truly believe it!!

[Brian H]

If you have any cell phone chargers or tool chargers. Try disconnecting them also.
Maybe a noise source or signal sucker has gotten just a little bit worse and you had a marginal signal to start with.
I would try the CFL as you where mentioning.
Also there was some data here on older modules aging and drifting out of tune and getting intermittent. Though I would look for things like noise makers and signal suckers first.

You have no X10 signal testers?

The XTBM is getting good ratings, but is so popular that it is now getting Back Ordered Status along with the XTB-IIR repeater. I believe mine is in the B.O. category.

[JeffVolp]

The XTBM is getting good ratings, but is so popular that it is now getting Back Ordered Status along with the XTB-IIR repeater. I believe mine is in the B.O. category.

All orders received through last weekend, including mail orders, were shipped Wednesday.

Another batch will be shipped as soon as they are kitted, but that cleans me out completely.  More PCBs are on order, and I am working on reordering components now.  Assuming I don't run into backorder problems myself, the XTBM should be available again by the end of January.

Jeff

[Brian H]

Jeff; I got your email.

[Appliance Module]

Some more info.

I am using N-Vision CFLs.   Any experience with them pro or con.    Any know CFL to use/not use?

I can turn on my out door lights from one outlet, but cannot turn them off.  If I move to an outlet that is on same phase, then  I can turn it off.    Same for a lamp module in the living room.    I believe it is also on opposite phase side from the minitimer.  Like I said, this did not used to be the case, so something has to have changed or failed.

Not going to be changing bulbs soon as it is about 15 degrees F out there.

Right now I have two controllers, one on each phase side.   I can make their turn on and off sequential, so if one fails the other should take over.   Any know problem doing that?    I realize that having two like that would tend to eliminate the ability to do the within the hour random turn on and off, but I think I can live with that.

[HA Dave]

Right now I have two controllers, one on each phase side. ............. I think I can live with that.

Don't do it! I "lived with" a phase issue myself... for longer than I like to admit. Then I decided to get serious about having fun and coupled my phases instead of using work-arounds. As much fun as X10 is.... it's a heck of a lot better when it works.

[Brian H]

It does sound like a phase thing. The controller on the opposite phase isn't quite strong enough to turn the light back off.

[Appliance Module]

Right now I have two controllers, one on each phase side. ............. I think I can live with that.

Don't do it! I "lived with" a phase issue myself... for longer than I like to admit. Then I decided to get serious about having fun and coupled my phases instead of using work-arounds. As much fun as X10 is.... it's a heck of a lot better when it works.

Not sure what I am not supposed to do.   I mentioned that I already have a passive phase coupler.  Is that what you meant?

[Brian H]

Passive phase couplers have one weak point. Lets say your controller sends at 5 Volts back on the power line. By the time it gets to the breaker box or where the coupler is. It is now 1 Volt. Only 1 volt is passed to the other phase and that phases losses may reduce the signals below minimum needed.

Since the system was fine with a coupler, something may have changed. Even if you have not made any changes.

Two controllers may not be the ideal solution, but maybe a fix. Until troubleshooting finds the culprit.

Have you had a chance to look over Jeff Volp's troubleshooting tutorials?
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

[dbemowsk]

I had thought of putting in just a passive coupler, and I had even seen some that suggested a 600v 0.1 uf capacitor between the phases (which is just another kind of passive coupling) , but I ended up getting a coupler/repeater off of ebay and I like it.  Instead of just passing the sent x10 signal on to the other phase which is what a coupler does, a coupler/repeater re-transmits the signal to the second phase.  I have heard that you should use a coupler/ repeater especially if your house is over 3000 sq ft.  Mine is just short of 2000 sq ft, but I think the repeater helps with some of the signal loss as the original signal on one phase reaches the panel.  I did run into some issues when using a TM751 along with the coupler/repeater.  The problem was that certain power line signals were getting sent twice due to the repeater.  So for example when I'd send a signal to close my garage door, my universal module (set to momentary) would first activate to start the door closing, but then it would send the signal again and the door would stop part way down.  Removing the TM751 from where I had it solved that issue.  I mounted a shelf in my basement which has my HA PC about 10 ft or so from my breaker panel. I don't know if that is helping, but I figure it can't hurt.

Dan B.

[HA Dave]

.........  I mounted a shelf in my basement which has my HA PC about 10 ft or so from my breaker panel. I don't know if that is helping, but I figure it can't hurt.

That really is the way to go. I also want to build an equipment closet next to my electric panel... But my wife wants to keep the laundry room.

[dbemowsk]

..........I also want to build an equipment closet next to my electric panel... But my wife wants to keep the laundry room.

I work as a computer tech for the local school district and we have a few old 6 foot tall 19 inch telco racks that we are currently not using.  I wish there was a way that I could get one of these, but I probably can't.  It would be sweet if I could mount all my suff in a nice standing rack.  I saw one on ebay for $85, but then it was another $36 for shipping.  Not sure if I want to spend that for a rack just yet.

Dan B.

[dave w]

  The problem was that certain power line signals were getting sent twice due to the repeater. 
Dan B.

Sounds like you have a X10, Leviton, or Smarthome repeater. IMHO they are all poodle gas in their individual ways. Save you pennys to purchase either JV Engineering XTBIIR or the ACT234. The ACT234 has some nice diagnostic LED's and the XTBIIR has the power of Hercules. Either one will make you very happy.

[dbemowsk]

Sounds like you have a X10, Leviton, or Smarthome repeater.

Actually it is an x10 Pro XPCR and I think it works well.  Outside of having the minor issue with the TM751, which BTW made sense after thinking about the way I had it set up.  In a home automation setup, it helps to not only know how modules work by themselves, but how they will affect the rest of your system.  With the TM751, when I first set it up, I was not thinking of how it would affect the rest of the system, but now I know.

Dan B.