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[Cel]

The essence of the question is how to make the Universal Module ( http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/marmitek-x10-universal-module-p-1094.html ) unlock this Mortice Lock (http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=1204) when I manually press the On button on the Universal Module?
I don't know if I'm connecting the components correctly, but when I connect a cable from the Universal Module directly to the Mortice Lock and plug the Universal Module into the mains, then pressing the On button on the Universal Module does not cause the lock to unlock, although i hear a click sound when i press On ?
Is this Universal Module not meant to work with this Mortice Lock? But in the specs, the Mortice Lock should be opened with 24v DC = 0.08A and Universal Module output is up to 5A at 24 V DC ?
Now if i disconnect the Universal Module from the Mortice Lock, and instead connect a mains adaptor that outputs 12V DC at 0.5A directly to the Mortice Lock, then when i plug the adaptor into the mains, I am able to manually move the lock part with my fingers as long as the adaptor is in the mains. This is not what i want though, because 1) i would like the Universal Module to unlock the Mortice Lock not this mains adaptor and 2) even with the mains adaptor I thought the lock should open itself fully, rather than require me to manually exert quite a lot of force to move the lock part with my fingers?
In summary, what am i doing wrong and how could i make the Universal Module properly unlock the Mortice Lock when i press the On button?

Thanks!

[nybuck]

I am able to manually move the lock part with my fingers as long as the adaptor is in the mains. This is not what i want though, because 1) i would like the Universal Module to unlock the Mortice Lock not this mains adaptor and 2) even with the mains adaptor I thought the lock should open itself fully, rather than require me to manually exert quite a lot of force to move the lock part with my fingers?

Cel -
As far as moving the lock open with your fingers, this seems like the proper operation of the lock.  Pulling on the door usually supplies the force necessary to open the lock mechanism.  There is a spring in there that closes it back.  The doorknob "tongue" then travels back into the recess when the door is closed.

As far as the universal module, I have no experience with this, but I wonder if it is just supplying a contact closure, or it is supplying +24 vdc.  There is a big difference.  It may be rated for a maximum of 24v, 5a, but supplies only the relay closure, or "switch" if you will.  You can easily figure this out with a voltmeter.  When the module is "on" is there any voltage reading on the screws?  If not, you'll need a 'mains adaptor' with the module in-between acting as the switch. 

I hope this clears it up for you.

[nybuck]

OK, I just read more about the universal module.

It supplies only a contact closure, either for 2 seconds, or continuously.

This means you should install the 'mains adaptor' positive wire to one screw, and the lock positive to the other screw.  Attach the negative of the adaptor to the lock negative.  Set it on momentary and you should be all set, as long as you open the door within 2 seconds.

[Cel]

thank you very much! you have the most clear and helpful reply, i just got it to work!!!

 in terms of moving the lock open with fingers once it is unlocked im not sure i can work out what kind of tongue or latch i need to use so that i can open and close the door once the mortice lock has been unlocked. woudl say this one do http://tinyurl.com/latchlikethis ? and i guess i should not put a handle into this latch which would make the mortice lock pointless?

 but even if the above is fine, i dont see how pulling the door woudl actually open the door, becuase to move the unlocked part seems to require a sideways force from my fingers instead of a force towards me which would be applied by the opening door ?  thats assuming i install teh mortice lock into door frame on the left side of the door. if you say the latch without the handle connected is fine though, i will give the latch a try and see if teh force towards me manages to move the lock part which i think requires a sidewise force (to the left if teh mortice is installed to the left side of teh door).

thanks again!

[Brian H]

As you maybe know now. The universal module does not supply any power. The ratings you gave are the switches contact rating.
To use the universal module it will have to switch an external power supply to the lock.

[beelocks]

I would guess that you're in the UK since all your links are .co.uk. This forum is mainly US based so most here are not familiar with your stuff.
What you need is someone familiar with X10 for your control applications and someone familiar with UK locking mechanisms. Luckily we know someone who fits the bill

The alleged electric mortice lock that you're looking at is not an electric mortice lock - it's an electric strike. The correct operation electrically is that the solenoid releases the lock mechanism when voltage is applied directly to the terminals. The way you're describing the operation is exactly as I would expect. You need to install your universal module to operate as a switch to your power supply as described by NYbuck (who did an excellent job). The universal module does not actually output 24v DC at 5 amps, it is merely rated as a switching device that is rated to carry up to 24v DC at 5 amps.

The problem you're having is that the lock you are using is probably not compatible. The usual definition for a UK mortice lock is one that is locked and unlocked with a key with no slam-shut action. The description on your electric strike is very misleading - it says for mortice locks, but then says it is for Yale type locks. Most Yale type slam-shut locks are not morticed into the edge of the door, and most mortice locks in the UK are not slam-shut.

If you're trying to electrically unlock a conventional UK style mortice DEADlock, such as a Chubb 3G114 or similar, you need an entirely different and much more expensive electrically released strike especially designed for deadlocks.

Although when you're bench testing this system you will need to apply a degree of force to the strike to make is operate, this force is very much diluted when you have the 'sail plane' of a 6 foot x 3 foot door doing a lot of the work for you.

Next problem...
The spec on your strike says 12v DC, 12v AC and 24v DC - this is very unusual. Electric strikes in the UK are normally rated 5-8v AC, 12v DC, 12v AC or 24v DC. Something that tries to cover both 12 and 24 volts without having some kind of voltage change for the solenoid is likely to suffer from major failure fairly soon when the solenoid burns out from overvoltage. On closer inspection of the really poor image available, the electric strike can only really be described as 'complete and utter pants' - probably manufactured in China under license from Spain with some Korean parts that were bent up out of rusted out Toyotas. Cheap and cheerful is a phrase that springs to mind, with the emphasis on cheap and the cheerful part crossed out and replaced with the word nasty. I seem to remember these things retailing for about 12 quid with a wholesale price of about 3, but that was about 6 years ago. By comparison, a half-decent electric strike was retailing for about 60 notes and a really good one closer to about half a monkey - I should be getting commission from Google on their English slang searches

Next problem...
X10 only has 256 theoretical codes available - I won't go into the where's and why's of what codes shouldn't be used as there is plenty of information out there on that. In practice you will be securing your door with a worse than 1 in 250 chance of someone chancing on your code if they know that you're using X10; this is not fantastic security, most X10 users can scan through all available codes in just a few minutes and therefore have your door open in just a few minutes.

Next problem...
Most people are unable to close doors after they walk through them. You should probably also look into installing a door closer to make to door self-closing so that your minimal security via X10 is active as much as possible. A door that has been left ajar is now down to zero possible codes to allow someone to walk through.

If you could let me know the make and model (or take a picture or three) of the mortice lock you're trying to use, I can probably help with specifying the parts you'll actually need to control your door if you still decide that the convenience of an electrically unlocked door is worth the substantial decrease in security that you'll see.

The important thing to remember is that electrically unlocking a door is usually a convenience that severely affects your security. Your insurance will most likely be voided if you have a break-in via a door that is electronically locked and unlocked - you should check with your insurance people before you go ahead with installing anything like this on an external door.

[dbemowsk]

OK, I just read more about the universal module.

It supplies only a contact closure, either for 2 seconds, or continuously.

This means you should install the 'mains adaptor' positive wire to one screw, and the lock positive to the other screw.  Attach the negative of the adaptor to the lock negative.  Set it on momentary and you should be all set, as long as you open the door within 2 seconds.

There is a way to set the amount of time you want the lock to stay open.  Yes, the momentary setting will work if you are okay with the 2 second momentary operation.  If you want more than 2 seconds though, read through this post.

You will still need a 12v power transformer inline with your UM contacts though.

Dan B

[beelocks]

That kind of latch will work, but will leave you locked out when your cheap electric strike fails. You need something with a key over-ride such as a Union 2332, Union 2341 or Chubb 3R35 if you want to be able to use the door any kind of electrical failure.

[nybuck]

thank you very much! you have the most clear and helpful reply, i just got it to work!!!

 in terms of moving the lock open with fingers once it is unlocked im not sure i can work out what kind of tongue or latch i need to use so that i can open and close the door once the mortice lock has been unlocked. woudl say this one do http://tinyurl.com/latchlikethis ? and i guess i should not put a handle into this latch which would make the mortice lock pointless?

 but even if the above is fine, i dont see how pulling the door woudl actually open the door, becuase to move the unlocked part seems to require a sideways force from my fingers instead of a force towards me which would be applied by the opening door ?  thats assuming i install teh mortice lock into door frame on the left side of the door. if you say the latch without the handle connected is fine though, i will give the latch a try and see if teh force towards me manages to move the lock part which i think requires a sidewise force (to the left if teh mortice is installed to the left side of teh door).

thanks again!

I think the latch alone would work, but generally these are installed with what I call a 'doorknob-type lock' (like in your picture) which provides low, 'daytime' or indoor security.  It could be defeated by a credit card, or hacking the X10 code...  As many have stated, I would install a deadbolt above it for higher, or 'front-door' security. 

Because of the many and long-winded replies, I trust you are all set.....   

[Cel]

thank you all for very useful information! im actually locking a cabinet not a front door that should be open to me at x times, so the main desirable is that I myself could not get in at non-x times

as to issues with teh system i think i have a putative solution to most now, which are
1) once teh timers have been set i would lock the cm15pro into the cabinet itself without the usb connected to the computer, so i couldnt really hack it because the controller is inside the cabinet
2) use a door close to avoid leaving door ajar

issues that im not sure i have covered properly though are
A) i understand this mortice lock might fail easily, which would not only make it necessary for me to break the cabinet (the extra key over-ride options are probably too expensive) but i would also need to replace teh lock many times possibly
B) i do not have a large front door, but a 18mm thick pretty small cabinet door, so i hope it will exert enough force for teh unlocked lock

for B, i will just try and see. For A, however, could you recommend any other computer-controllable lock model i could potentially purchase, that does not fail as easily?

thank you again, you have been of enormous help!

[Cel]

oh, and something that woudl work in the UK, otherwise Insteon is better for security though the lock fail issue remains?

[beelocks]

All the electro-mechanical parts you've looked at so far will not fit into an 18mm (3/4") thick cabinet door as the locking mechanisms require more than that. The device you have in your hand is probably over an inch thick to start with, and the mortice lock part that you don't have yet will need a 3/4" thick mortice cut into the cabinet.

You need to start looking at surface mounted suitable for cabinet use. Look at this http://www.nokey.com/liduelcalo.html and then try to find something in the UK.

It's a more reliable unit at a higher price but still doesn't address the problem of gaining access if the unit fails, the power fails or if you need to get in at anything other than a programmed time.

If you only need the door timed open and closed a less expensive solution would be a simple plug-in timer set to unlock the device at X:XX and relock it again at Y:YY.

I've been in the trade for many moons and it's pretty unusual to need a light duty cabinet such as this only operable at given times. There is no strength worth speaking of in your actual cabinet, so if this is to boost your willpower (to stop you getting at the chocolate at 3am) it might work, but if it's to stop any kind of burglarous attack then you need to look at stronger (and higher quality/priced) solutions.

Almost everything available 'off the shelf' will be for security purposes, and your application sounds like it's for convenience rather than security. There was a posting earlier this week for a home-made deadbolt using solenoids and X10 devices that would probably work for you - I'm sure a quick search will bring it up or someone might point you to it.

[Cel]

thank you again! you guessed it with the willpower boost application

i'll see if i can find the cabinet lock for UK,

and also test if it might be possible to attach teh mortice lock (http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=1204) and corresponding lathc ( http://tinyurl.com/latchlikethis ) to my cabinet surfaces directly (without cutting into the cabinet) , because a) im designing and building the cabinet as i want from scratch so i can try to make suitable adjustments and b) i have already bought the mortice lock from uk-automation

and ill search for the home-made deadbolt solution you mention

i'll let you know if i have any luck with these!