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[lightbulbjones]

Good morning.

I have the HD 245 (I think) as ordered (or the PAM 04 which is what the paperwork says)

Into it I have plugged the air conditioner:

If it is calling for cooling or calling for heat, it will start and run normally, even after it satisfies the call for cooling/heating. EDIT: Nope! It is not working at all now.

If it is NOT calling for cooling or heating, the AC unit will buzz, whine, grind and chatter for a moment, and then  give up and just sit inactive. Edit: It will no longer do this - Just clicks.

Did I get a dud appliance box?

I would think they would test these things before they were shipped at some point but I suppose bad ones get through.

Time to send it back?  As it is, Ive found this system to be a joke - so far.

[lightbulbjones]

If you kick it  on and off several times it will catch, hold and run. Not sure this is ideal for an airconditioner.
This is ridiculous.

[lightbulbjones]

Spoke with the company and they seem to be interested in taking it back.

It appears they can't make any more sense of it than I can.
I even went so far as voltage readings as he mentioned the company has no means to test 240V equipment.

In other words - A dud as far as anyone can determine.
 
Still irritating, but these things happen.
I suppose my question is answered as to why this one is misbehaving.

For anyone who may be interested in Identifying a bad unit: (PAM04/HD 245)
246V at the wall.
0-1v when initially plugged in

216V when commanded ON (No load)
216V after being commanded OFF

During the next command to ON voltages will drop briefly to about 170V and then quickly return to 216V.
Command it OFF again and it sits at 216V regardless.

With load (AC unit calling for cooling) measured at the appliance prongs (HEY! be careful!), we get about 170, briefly, then 0V

Monkeying with it by turning it on and off sometimes does get it to turn on and run, but requires several power cycle commands.  Obviously, the cooling equipment isn't satisfied with this, and one has to wonder how much of that it can tolerate. I generally don't like bouncing power to any A/C unit. 

They mentioned it generally takes around week for the replacement process.

No wonder I had trouble though - It is easy to assume (or even expect) that equipment will work as designed and clearly this is not always the case.

[Brian H]

With no load on the module and the meters high impedance. The 216 VAC off maybe normal.
The module has a circuit in it to determine if it is on or off.
With no load and only the meters resistance. It will read close to the input voltage on and off.

Now close to zero on the output turned On with a load would indicate it has a bad switch in it.

The 120 volt appliance modules also read close to line voltage with no load and a high impedance meter when off.

Your module maybe bad but the 216 volts off maybe a missleading finding.

PAM04 is the X10Pro version of the X10 HD245

[lightbulbjones]

Thanks again Brian.

I am not sure why I would see line voltage (or any voltage) on the backside (load side) of what amounts to an open circuit in a relay/contactor. I am not sure why this would ever be regarded as normal, either.

The other problem is- that it is only a rare occasion I can get it to cough up enough voltage to start the A/C.

As far as a closed circuit loadside- I should get right about the 240V needed to run a 240V appliance.
Sometimes it acts like it has lost a phase, which is a tradition I know how to spot- but if that were the case I would see no more than 120, unless there is something spectacularly bad going on with a neutral somewhere.
Something like a loose neutral, well, it would be hard for me to miss those signs.

Perhaps I'll check phase to ground, but I doubt it would be illuminating.

One of the intended purposes of this device is work with 240V air conditioners, so a reading of 216V or 170V is so low its not even in the ball park. 

Edit: for clarity.

[lightbulbjones]

Not to mention, this is with 246V at the wall.

Imagine a hot day when the power company starts dropping voltage and pushing more amps!

Last year we had a record 105V trough that lasted a whole afternoon. (Single phase obviously)
The power supply in the computer protested loudly, but it held, and so did the rest of my equipment. 

I don't care to see how low I can go, but the Support man told me it does not work with 208V or three phase, so it is right at the bottom edge of what it can do to begin with on 246V.  No way it could be working as normal.

[lightbulbjones]

Voltage to ground:

At the wall:
A125V to ground
B125V to ground

At the unit commanded ON
A108V to ground
B125V to ground

At the unit commanded OFF:
A108V to ground
B123V to ground

108V is exactly what? Half of 216V. What any of it means I can't be sure - besides the general statement that it is not working as it should, and the support department seems to think the same thing.

EDIT:

However, I would like to know where my other 17V went from the output side. What a weird thing to be short on.
Now to stop messing with this and to get after some plumbing, which will I have equal distaste for.

[Brian H]

The A Line to ground with it ON looks bad. The internal switch maybe broken.
The missing 17 volts maybe the meter is just reading through the 'am I on or off sensor circuit' and the mechanical switch never closed on the A side.
Anyway they are replacing it.

If you feel like trying one more thing.
Turn it On. Unplug it and measure the resistance of the A Line In to A Line Out and compare it to the B Line In to B Line Out.

Oh I feel exactly the same about plumbing. 

[lightbulbjones]

As far as resistance:

Turned on and unplugged - it reads open circuit with no reading on both the line and load sides.
Would it not be that way normally? Or...

I would think it needs power to hold the relay/contactor closed.
My electronics meters are not with me, but my Greenlee CM-600 shows infinite or as near- for  resistance on either end - line or load when unplugged after being commanded on.  

What is worth a moment of appreciation is that there is infinite resistance - or near enough on the line side.
I would maybe think it should show at least a little on the line side - all circuits have SOME resistance, right? Is that not where the internals are hooked up?

Infinite resistance to me says open circuit.
 
Other misadventures today have led me to put off today's plumbing maneuvers. 
4:00pm on a Friday is no time to pull a toilet, nor to assume I could get even more accomplished. 

[lightbulbjones]

I am still monkeying with this and probably won't send it in till early next week...

Just a thought-are these boxes known to have overload protection internally somehow?

The reason I ask is because plugged straight into the wall, I get enough voltage to start the fan and compressor instantly; Sure it will pull some serious amps for a few seconds, but no big deal. No protesting from the AC unit as if it had low voltage or lost a phase.

If someone has been stupid enough to engineer an APPLIANCE controller that does not have a few second delay *before* some sort of over current protection kicks in, and it's somehow activating an "instant" overcurrent protection, we might have a winner.

If it is a matter of a time delay that ISN'T built in to an automatic (or instant) overcurrent protection on an APPLIANCE controller made for what? HEAVY LOADS, the engineer should be fed to piranhas.

I am not a bright man by any means, but if I can figure it out, and if this is the problem (not sure, but it's an idea) it's more than a faulty unit, it's the faulty thinking behind it.

EDIT: for clarity.

[Brian H]

They have a mechanical switch in them. If you turn it On then unplug it. The switch stays On.
It does not have a relay in it like other brands do.

I also seriously doubt it has any overload devices in it.
The HD243 fifteen amp ones don't and the 120 volt appliance modules also have no protective devices in them.

[dave w]

If someone has been stupid enough to engineer an APPLIANCE controller that does not have a few second delay *before* some sort of over current protection kicks in, and it's somehow activating an "instant" overcurrent protection, we might have a winner.

If it is a matter of a time delay that ISN'T built in to an automatic (or instant) overcurrent protection on an APPLIANCE controller made for what? HEAVY LOADS, the engineer should be fed to piranhas.

lightbulbjones
We are talking X10, who sells these modules as cheaply as $5 in bulk...do you really think there are protective circuits engineered into that cost? It just sounds like you got a bad module.

[lightbulbjones]

Funny you should mention the 15 amp unit.

Just did something fun:

If I use *that* controller in the software (hd 243) instead of a PAM 04 or HD245 - guess what?
It works nearly 50 percent of the time instead of 25% of the time.

Just point it at the address and it's much better!

The dimmable lamp units work equally as well. (slide that dimmer up slowly, and then 50% of the time it fires off right at 100.)

I guess anything can goad the E1 address into life, but why would one work better than the other?
And why would the intended controller work WORSE than some mismatch or oddball?

Since this is a mechanical switch (solenoid driven or something else?)  - I have another silly little question.
Is it known to work up-side-down?

I keep hearing a Snap-Snap as if it's bouncing back off again. This is what I understood to be the thermal/overcurrent protection kicking in.  If the internals are done properly, it wouldn't be as likely to be needed. But it still goes snap-snap. One snap is where it works. Two and it don't.

But say gravity is doing something silly with the switch? Should I try to re-orientate my socket just for fun? Right side up?

And yeah, I suppose I have a dud, but it seems to be valuable to learn what I can. Plus, If it decides to start behaving while I am monkeying with it - then all the better.  (And cheaper!)

[Brian H]

If it clicks more than one time. The module didn't change state or the electronics didn't detect the change. It then will try a few times to change and then give up. Clunk Clunk Clunk.

[dave w]

Since this is a mechanical switch (solenoid driven or something else?)  - I have another silly little question.
Is it known to work up-side-down?

I keep hearing a Snap-Snap as if it's bouncing back off again. This is what I understood to be the thermal/overcurrent protection kicking in.  If the internals are done properly, it wouldn't be as likely to be needed. But it still goes snap-snap. One snap is where it works. Two and it don't.

But say gravity is doing something silly with the switch? Should I try to re-orientate my socket just for fun? Right side up?

And yeah, I suppose I have a dud, but it seems to be valuable to learn what I can. Plus, If it decides to start behaving while I am monkeying with it - then all the better.  (And cheaper!)

There are other threads on the forum describing this same problem. Apparently X10 may be having some manufacturing problems, and unfortunately it seems the controlled receptacles are more problematic than the Appliance Module. A new receptacle should fix your problem.