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[jkaprese]

Hey there!

Started out a while back with a X10 Remote (HR12A) and a Transceiver (TM751) for our living room lights. Loved it so much that I figured I'd get a couple more appliance modules (AM466), but no matter how I plug them in or where they are, they never seem to work even though the Transceiver still does. Any ideas? Am I doing this wrong or are they bad?   

Thanks so much!

[Brian H]

Try rotating both the House Code and Unit Code dial a few times. We have seen dials that are dirty and the address is not what the dials are set to.

Try them in the same outlet as the TM751 is in.
If they work you probably have a X10 power line signal problem.
Could be a noise maker, signal sucker or the modules are on the other phase of the homes wiring.
Here is a link to a great set of Tutorials.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Here is another one from ACT Systems. It is also a good set of information.
http://www.act-solutions.com/PCC/uncle.htm

[JimWise]

Most (nearly all) houses are wired so about half is on one phase and the other half is on the other phase (sort of like one part being -+-+ while the other is +-+-).  Make sure the tranceiver and appliance modules are connected to sockets that are on the same phase.  An easy way to start out is to just stick them in the top/bottom of the same outlet or put them together on the same extension cord.  If the appliance modules respond then you know they are set correction and are not duds.  Then you need to figure out which outlets are on the same phase.  Since there are only two phases, try leaving one of the appliance modules in a socket where it was non-responsive before, and move the transceiver to another outlet that also seemed non-responsive before since now they should both be on the same phase.  If that works you should be able to get the additional areas you wanted to work, but won't be able to have your living room lights working the way you wanted.  There are threads dealing with phase coupling to help handle this.  I haven't gotten into that, and will have to read more on that myself to figure out why people don't just get a second tranceiver to put on the other phase.

[dave w]

I haven't gotten into that, and will have to read more on that myself to figure out why people don't just get a second tranceiver to put on the other phase.

I can help a little with that question.

Two tranceivers, each on a different phase and set to same house code may not work well, especially if both tranceivers are TM751, which are impolite. Meaning, as soon as they see the RF command being transmitter from a remote or a motion sensor, etc. they blindly put the command on the homes powerlines. If both tranceivers see the RF signal they will both put the code on the lines at the same time and the powerline signal gets corrupted as they smash into each other... so nothing happens. Also wired controllers such as Maxi Controller, Mini Controller, Mini Timer, etc. or the CM15A USB controller, output directly to powerline, not to RF, so the TM751 or RR501, PAT01 tranceivers will not see the signal to couple to opposite phase.

The answer is a "Ampliffier/Coupler" which amplifies and couples the PLC between the phases. A high output unit will also dramatically help with noise and "signal sucker" issues.

[systemdm]

Dave,
I thought if they were on different phases, they wouldn't confilict?  I do agree the cleaner solution is the amplifier/coupler.

[dave w]

Dave,
I thought if they were on different phases, they wouldn't confilict?  I do agree the cleaner solution is the amplifier/coupler.

In the oldie days of X10 control, X10 depended upon 220V appliances to couple X10 signals between phases. Water heaters, ovens, HVAC, clothes dryers, well pumps,  or even the electric clock in the stove did a pretty fair job of coupling the signal phase to phase.

In present day these appliances STILL couple X10 phase to phase (when running). One of the reasons appliance coupling does not work as well as in 1979 is the random electrical noise from modern day (ubiquitous) switching power supplies, makes the attenuated appliance coupled signal far more difficult for the modules to pick-up, however the attenuated signal still does a fine job of corrupting the original phase signal upon collision. 

Two TM751's is death to X10 PLC signals originating from RF devices. A TM751 and a RR501 or CM15A (both are "polite" tranceivers) does work in many cases, but ONLY for X10 RF signalling being tranceived to PLC. Any X10 devices that sends strickly PLC or any RF remote which is not picked up by BOTH tranceivers on the different phases will not  be coupled. So it is sort of doomed to failure as a cheap way of phase coupling.

[yancy]

I have a 2 story house and have been successfully using multiple TM751's, an RR501, and a CM15A on 2 phases.  In order to do so properly one needs to first plan out which signal type you are going to use to control your end devices and also what you are going to use to send the signal.  My house has it's two phases primarily split with one upstairs and the other downstairs.  I use both TM751's upstairs, both on different house codes, neither of which uses a house code that is used on the other phase downstairs.  My CM15A and RR501 are both downstairs.  My main control is my PC sending signals to the CM15A, and depending on the house code of the signal being sent, it will either send a PLC or an RF.  I also have some random wireless wall switches to control some of the lights, which send the signal via RF and get received by any of my transciever modules depending on the house code.  To date this has worked fairly reliably, with the only exception being the wireless wall switches whose range doesn't seem to be consistent.

I'm controlling 10 cameras, 10 light switches, 2 appliance modules, and 3 lamp modules with this setup.

[dave w]

I use both TM751's upstairs, both on different house codes, neither of which uses a house code that is used on the other phase downstairs.  My CM15A and RR501 are both downstairs.  My main control is my PC sending signals to the CM15A, and depending on the house code of the signal being sent, it will either send a PLC or an RF.  I also have some random wireless wall switches to control some of the lights, which send the signal via RF and get received by any of my transciever modules depending on the house code. 

To date this has worked fairly reliably,

Yes and I can see why. You have done an excellent job of planning the system.

My initial statement of two TM751's not working togeather should have specified "on the same house code".

The problem comes when a new user reads on the forum that two cheap tranceivers will function same as one more costly repeater...and then does not understand why they do not and ends up sending back, or dumping the system.