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[lhntx]

It's now been over four months since I purchased my simple 4 wireless camera security system to monitor the exterior of my home since there have been a number of breakins and thefts in my neighborhood.
Things that I have learned. 
1. if you live in a stucco house you will probably NEVER get this system to work correctly no matter how small the home or how close the sensors are to your main receiver.
2. if you try to find anything on the x10 website - be prepared to never find what you need. The site is basically useless unless you want to buy something, and even then finding what you want specifically is an effort in frustration.
3. if you call x10 tech support, be prepared to get someone different every time and have each one give you conflicting information as to what you need or need to do.  Basically what they are there for is to SELL YOU SOMETHING ELSE.
4. the forums are a good source of info, many members have given me helpful information, but be prepared to get sent down myriads of rabbit trails if you try and figure out something on your own, and many of those rabbit trails are useless, or lead nowhere, or conflict with other rabbit trail information, or the members disagree with each other as to a solution, or HINT at possible solutions elsewhere in the forums but rarely give you the specifics of what you need to search for, or worst of all - ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE A DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING and know what in the heck that they are talking about
5. be prepared to have to get out a soldering iron and break open hardware and void any warrenties - but also be prepared to have very vauge descriptions and sometimes fuzzy photos of what you need to do and the change actually not make much difference.
6. be prepared to have to "upgrade" to better software and or components, but also be prepared for that software to crash every single day, multiple times a day (which makes it USELESS for security monitoring), and be prepared for the new components to give you absolutely NO CLUE as to if they are working or not, since they don't act any different and you don't get any better results than the original software and be prepared for very little IF ANY documentation on the software.
7. be prepared to get sent via rabbit trails to other third party vendors for possible fixes via expensive third party hardware, but only have vague discriptions of what this hardware does, and no indication of how it actually might help you or how to integrate these third party parts in to what you already own.
8. be prepared for the email functions to NEVER, EVER WORK even when you are specifically asked to send a manual email invitation to someone else to receive the notification emails.
9. unless you have electrical outlets every few feet to constantly move modules to find the best pace for them - then you are probably SOL in getting this system to work because you are going to run out of places to put the modules
10. be prepared to spend hours and hours "testing" to find the best place to plug in modules or what settings to use or where to put your main CPU to hook them to (for the software), but also be prepared to NEVER be able to get ANY place that every function will work. At least one piece of the required software or hardware will not work correctly in every configuration and that can also change BECAUSE OF THe WEATHER where something that was working will quit working if it rains.

So basically I have a nice laptop that I can watch video of one are of my home on occasionally while I'm actually at home, but as a security system it is USELESS.

[dave w]

Gee, go back and read your thread. How many rabbit trails did you lead people who were trying to help you down?
You said you could not get all four wireless cameras to work at the same time. When explained that you can only have one camera on at a time, you said you knew that, but later in the thread you are back to trying to get two cameras video at the same time. You don't listen. You don't bother giving us model numbers but instead use any name convenient at the moment, calling the same item different names throughout the thread. When asked for model numbers, you said you did not know what they were. So how are we to know...mental osmosis? People give you suggestions and you do not acknowledge whether you did them, if they worked or not, etc, etc.

And you complain about being led down rabbit trails.

We are not mind readers, if you want productive help, you have to help us eliminate known problem areas, and you do that with feedback.

X10 isn't Plug-N-Play. It is a little more difficult that putting batteries in your flashlight, but you do not have to be an engineer. Few users are. For the most part all new users do get their system up and running. How do they manage it?

Sorry things didn't work out. You are still in the warranty period, send it all back.

[nybuck]

 

1 - I don't think a stucco home necessarily dooms you to complete failure, but remember they can only transmit at a limited power, limited by the FCC.  A house in a metal cage will limit that signal - You can break many laws, but not the law of physics.
2 - The X10 website is not very user-friendly.  Your best bet is the newsletter or the 'search' box.

I could go on and on about the tech support, or the forum users, but as Dave said, this stuff is not plug and play.  I have been very frustrated, especially when trying to get a 2.4 GHz camera and a 2.4 GHz WiFi router to play nicely.  This forum and a little bit of electronics savvy (turning one camera from wireless to wired) gave me great results.
It is often hard to type out your issue clearly, and even harder for the users to decipher the issue without seeing it, and type out the fix without you seeing it.  I find it easier to fix something I can see and fiddle with it.  Basic repair theory has taught me to change one variable at a time and note the results.  If you change 5 things, one may FIX the issue, 3 do nothing, and 1 revert it back to not working.

In closing, I want to say that I feel your pain, but what would it cost to get someone to install 4 cameras on your house with email alerts, video recording, motion sensing, etc?  If you can't change your own oil for $10, you gotta pay the mechanic $50 to do it for you.   

[lhntx]

I agree with you Dave W.  It was very confusing for me at first because  I'd never seen anything with the xx999a names - only descriptive names - so I had no idea what was being discussed about until I got out my magnifying glass and behold!! those xx999a names were on the labels, plus the fact that I wasn't quite sure what each piece of hardware actually does so that made it more difficult to accurately explain the part before I new their technical xx999a names.  All of these months later I'm still not quite sure about some of the hardwares functions, because I've never really found anything anywhere that truly describes more than the basic functions of the hardware pieces.  It is also very difficult at times to describe the problem correctly.  I did understand that only one camera is supposed to be on at a time, but I've not run across anything that explains how the other three are turned off (or at least I'm iffy on what I've been able to find), and I was using the 4 camera display, and getting the same on each display  and yes, I did understand that only one of the four was actually the active display.  I actually was scratching my head at why I didn't seem to be getting across that I understood perfectly that only one at a time can be displayed, so my explanation was obviously inadequite.

By rabbit trails I mean the process of trying to figure out the original problem leads to multiple possible fixes from multiple users in the forums, and those users have had various degrees of success, or actually contradict each other.  I've found multiple trails on signal sending, signal receiving, ways to boost both, or modify the hardware, adding hardware, hardware issues, software issues, etc.  There seems to be a lot of trial and error, but no definite "this is what must be done" that I can find.   It is all extremely confusing and time consuming.

I guess that I'm too much of a "read the directions and follow those directions" type of person.  I was hoping that somewhere in the pages and pages of forums and the many searches that I've done that I could find a step by step instruction on how get the system working.  I run across some that almost do this, by they too have rabbit trails that lead to other third party sites or require the use of electrical instruments that I do no own or wish to purchase or require electrical engineering knowledge that I do no possess.

I also understand that the software isn't plug and play, but I used to install and maintain software for a living for over  20 years. It's not rocket science. BUt, I would appreciate some clue as to why the software crashes time and time again, day after day or why some of the components (such as the email - which is a CRITICAL function for the security part) don't give you even a clue as to what might be the problem - the software simply does NOTHING, and there is no documentation anywhere that I can find that gives me a clue as to how to fix the issues or even where to start. 

And NYbuck, you are also right - you pay for what you get.  What I paid was reletively inexpensive, so
nuff said. But don't get me wrong, I'm going to keep at this till I either get is working, or get so frustrated that I finally throw all of the gear out in the street and run over it with my car.

[nybuck]

...and lhntx -  I agree that there is little to no step-by-step documentation.  These products are typical of what is sold these days - MPC - (Made and Produced in China) - and unfortunately, the guy making the instructions is often not thoroughly versed in English.  Remember when you'd buy software and it came with a nice thick manual?  Now you're lucky if you get a 2-page PDF or TXT file!  And customer service in the 2000's is not much better...

So you see, X10 is not the exception, or worse than any other company out there...  They just shine their fenders really bright, and offer very low prices, and we keep buying the 'mostly-working' gadgets.

In Conclusion - The best support for X10 products is here on these forums, coupled with a lot of spare time and patience.   

[Knightrider]

......ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE A DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING and know what in the heck that they are talking about.......

I'm sorry to have contributed to your confusion.  I do have that degree, but have never practiced the profession or joined the society of engineers.  I try to keep it in layman's terms as I've forgotten much of what I learned in college, and the real pros here at the forum say things all the time that I have to look up myself.

I've played with X10 for over 20 years and kinda know what to expect, but try to help others in the right direction.

That being said,  I still stay clear of most items in the consumer broadcast range, and bet you will too in the future.

I'll try to keep it simpler in the future.

[dave w]

OK, (clasps hands behind back, looks down at shoes, and moves foot back and forth in large arc) I'm sorry. I wanna help too. 

[lhntx]

Ok... since my last post I decided to take a rest for a while to try and regain some of my sanity, then I  moved my dedicated laptop to a section of my home a little closer to the most critical 2 of my 4 cameras to see if I could possibly!!! maybe!! hopefully!!! get a signal from at least one of the motion detectors, but I now have an issue with the video signal "rolling" like an old time tv and, of course, the cameras don't turn on/off correctly.  I found out in the past that if the video receiver and the laptop and cm15a are plugged into the same wall socket, that this rolling can occur.. but I can't get around the issue this time. I only have so many wall  sockets!  How can someone plug a laptop into one wall socket and the required USB based equipment into another wall socket across the room?  I'm not particulary fond of running wires across the room to try and overcome this interference.   The only good thing is that I actually DID get a signal from one of the motion detectors. Once. I added an extra 9" piece of coathanger wire to the CMA15 antennae and removed the video signal receivers flat antennae and replaced it with an old unused antennae from my wireless router, so that probably helped.  The signal did trip the macro, but the email part still does not work and after a few seconds the rolling started, so the video is useless.  Even manually sellecting the email to be sent to email users that want to monitor the system offsite does NADA!  No email is ever received on the other computer that I gave the email addresses for. Also, is there any way to tell if the CMA15 is actually working??? It has no lights, no switches, and the cameras don't turn off/on correctly, so it might be a brick and I'd have no way of ever knowing that it doesn't actually function since there are so many issues that I'm trying to overcome. Final question... I ran across the V572 RF in one of the many rabbit trails that I've gone down, but I cannot find any info as to if it will work with the CM15a (and the assocated AHP software) that I just purchased.  I'm thinking that the xtbiii that comes with it will also help by boosting the x10 signals.  Will adding the v572/xtb solve my issues?? Maybe even a little?   

[Brian H]

The XTB,XTBR,XTB-IIR and XTBM are JV Engineering products.
http://jvde.us/

The V572 is made by WGL Designs Inc.
http://www.wgldesigns.com/v572.html

They do not came as a set and are completely different animals.

The V572 is an all House Code transceiver and can receive X10 RF commands and send them back on the power line.
It does have a better range than a CM15A. Many like it for much better reception.

The XTB,XTBR and XTB-IIR are X10 signal boosters with a very powerfull output. The XTB-IIR is a phase coupler repeater. The XTBR is a new product that I have little data on.

I have an XTB-IIR and I like it.

[lhntx]

I got the info on the vx572 and xtb from one of the forum help pages which sent me to this link: http://www.wgldesigns.com/v572.html.  The two units are sold in various configurations along with antennaes, but, again, there really isn't a good explanation as to what they actually acomplish.

And I now have even more questions because so many issues are just really unclear:

When you say that the vx572 has better range than a CM15a, is that for receiving signals from remote wireless units (motion detector for instance) or sending out x10 signals via the house wiring (to turn on/off a camera for instance) or both?
Since the number ONE issue that I'm having is getting the video cams to turn on/off as needed via x10 signals through the wiring, would an xtb product fix this?  And is yes, then what are the differences in the different models and would would be the better choice?
Can you tell me what a "phase coupler repeater" means?  What exactly does that do?
If I went with an vx572, would that mean that I could no longer use AHP software and macros??

[Brian H]

The V572 is like a souped up TM751. It receives all 256 X10 codes {16 House and 16 Unit Codes} and sends them back on the power line.
So the RF reception was what I was talking about when compared to the CM15A.
The power line signals could be received by the CM15A and trigger a macro or motion sensors command could also be received by the camera supplies.
You are using one of the X10 programs to control the cameras if I remember correctly?
No you would not have to abandon the CM15A and AHP if you added a V572A to your system.

I think Jeff Volp may give you the details on the XTB over what I know of it. I believe it boosts an X10 signal from a controller connected to its front panel AC outlet. A passive coupler between the houses wiring phases. Gets the boosted signal to the other phase.
The XTB-IIR connects to both phases and repeats the X10 signal on one phase to the other phase. In some parts of my home I have a 9.9 volt X10 signal. .1 volts is what most call marginal.

[JeffVolp]

I think Jeff Volp may give you the details on the XTB over what I know of it.

The original XTB did not have a microcontroller, and was just able to boost the X10 signal produced by a transmitter plugged directly into it.  I originally designed it to boost the output from my TW523 powerline interface.

The XTBR is still a plug-in unit like the XTB, but it added a repeater capability.  It runs much of the same code that is in the XTB-IIR.  Because of the smaller form factor, there had to be tradeoffs.  Its simpler return signal amplifier isn't as sensitive to weak powerline signals as the XTB-IIR, and the beefier power stage in the larger unit puts out a slightly stronger signal.  And, like the XTB, it must be used with a good passive coupler like the XPCP if there are X10 devices on both phases.  Its main advantage is its ability to provide a high-power repeater from a simple plug-in unit.

Jeff

[Brian H]

I may have forgotten someting simple.
Did we cover X10 signal suckers and noise makers in any of our threads?
Maybe getting the existing signals to the devices. By getting less attenuation or noise in the system. Thing's may start to work.

[lhntx]

Uh....  I don't mean to sound ungrateful, Jeff, but I understand very little of your reply. Most of that is way over my head.

And Brian H... how do I even begin?  where do I begin? do I need special equipment?  I have the same stuff that most people have:  fridge, central a\c, wireless phone, wireless internet, and THROUGH THE HOUSE WIRING Internet to get around wireless signal blockers in one part of the house, computers, printers, the usual.
I think that I may be even more confused than ever.

My understanding so far:
If I decide to go with signal boosting, and If I got the vx572 to get better reception along with an xtb to boost the output signal, then I need to abandon the CM15a and AHP software? And I do not use the the orignal TM751 (crap, I can't remember the exact model. The white plug in transceiver with pull out antennae and a plug and switch for A-x), but do I use the original Vanguard software that I started with?

[Brian H]

Well I am going to look through our threads and see what I can find out.

That is if Hurricane Earl doesn't kill my power for a few days.