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[Georgie]

We have an unknown neighbor who has been able to control some of our X-10 controlled lights even though we have a PZZ01 blocker/coupler installed in our circuit breaker panel.  Furthermore, he/she sometimes sends signals continuously so we can't control lights at all, so it's particularly frustrating to have his signals penetrate the PZZ01.

At first I thought he was suing our wireless receiver to do all this, but I've disconnected it so I know he must be sending signals over our 126-unit condo building's wiring.... through the PZZ01 I installed.  There are too many neighbors to identify the one causing this problem and dealing with it at the source.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to stop this. 

[Brandt]

Do you have a signal meter such as the XTBM? or are you just basing this off of what you see in your computer's logs? or?

[dave w]

We have an unknown neighbor who has been able to control some of our X-10 controlled lights even though we have a PZZ01 blocker/coupler installed in our circuit breaker panel. 

At first I thought he was suing our wireless receiver to do all this, but I've disconnected it so I know he must be sending signals over our 126-unit condo building's wiring.... through the PZZ01 I installed.  There are too many neighbors to identify the one causing this problem and dealing with it at the source.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to stop this. 

Wierd. I'm not being insulting here, but are you sure you do not have any other RF receivers still operating? It is easy to disconnect the TM751 and forget that a CM15A will also transceive X10 codes.

The PZZ01 can't actually stop X10 codes,  but only attenuates the code by inverting it and superimposing it on the neutral line. If your neighbor has a good X10 repeater the PZZZ01 may not be able to attenuate the incoming signal sufficiently. Is the PZZ01 neutral feed through cavity tight against the incoming neutral line? If not, you may not be getting good inductive coupling.

Aside from that, you might try leaving a note in the building's common area about X10 and lights flashing. Then the next time your lights act up, as described in your opening line, immediately use a X10 controller and fire back a series of ON-OFFs on the same HCUC to get the neighbors attention (you will need to turn off the breakers to the PZZ01, otherwise your signal will not get past your panel).

[Georgie]

Brandt:

Sorry, I have no test gear. 

The neighbor frequently turns on one or the other of two lights we have under X-10 control and occasionally another, but never two others (...at least recently; he regularly turned one of those on in the past).  Whenever he/she does, we cannot control any of them, so I'm assuming he is continuing to send command(s). 

Cheers!!

Dick

[Brian H]

Have you tried a different set of addresses? Like a different House Code.
If you are using A the default house code for every module shipped. I would pick a new one

[Georgie]

Dave W.

Thanks for the very prompt response!

It IS weird!  Especially since we have both of the TM751s we own unplugged, sitting on a shelf waiting to go back i service.  Furthermore, we've never owned a CM15A.

The neutral runs through the PZZ01's center hole. Its diameter is what it is, I don't see how we could snug it up closer to one side without moving it away from the opposite side.  

Before we put the PZZ01 in, he and I played had little "battles", with him turning on a light and me turning it off... for 10 - 20 repetitions.  

When I first recognized we had this problem, I waited for a month or so, then changed the house the code on everything.  He continued to interact exactly as he had before.  It was as if he knew of the change and decided to do the same, just to aggravate us.

He still occasionally turns on our kitchen track lights at 3 or 4 AM, as if he's just returned from a late closing bar and turned on his lights/music/who knows.  I may be wrong, but I don't think he's turned anything off since we put in the PZZ01.

I've been hoping someone could suggest something I haven't tried before I take the time to change the house code again, in desperation.

Cheers!!

Georgie

[dave w]

The neutral runs through the PZZ01's center hole. Its diameter is what it is, I don't see how we could snug it up closer to one side without moving it away from the opposite side.  

Before we put the PZZ01 in, he and I played had little "battles", with him turning on a light and me turning it off... for 10 - 20 repetitions.  

I've been hoping someone could suggest something I haven't tried before I take the time to change the house code again, in desperation.

Well you can't improve the connection of the PZZ01 since it is tight now. And you have been down the road of "getting his attention" so I'm out of ideas short of switching to a different system such as Z-Wave which must be "paired" and once paired will ignore Z-Wave signals from other systems. Another system suggestion would be Insteon which would have the advantage of being compatible with X10 so you wouldn't have to replace everything at once. However Insteon could still be controlled by your neighbor while in the "X10 compatible" mode.

Although expensive, everyone I know who has Z-Wave likes it.

FWIW
If your "neighbor" is indeed playing with you, you could always declare the X10 version of  "M.A.D." thermo nuclear war by "putting a rock" on the DIM button of a X10 wired Mini Controller forcing it to send a continuous dim command for perpetuity or until you removed the rock (a "C" clamp will work nicely). You would likely make his system as useless as yours during the war period, but should make him realize "two can play this game".

[Georgie]

Dave W.:

That's very interesting!  I hadn't thought about a rock on the Dim button! That's probably what he's doing when I find nothing works. 

Since the PZZ01 blocks X-10 signals in both directions, I suspect I couldn't affect him much, but it's worth a try to see what he does.

As to replacing parts or all of the system, I think I'll not do that... at least just yet.  This is an irritation and puzzlement, but most of the time everything works.  I'll change House Code again before spending more money.

BTW, can you confirm that the PZZ01 couples our two phases?  The only other problem I'm having is an apparent lack of such coupling.  If it's supposed to have that feature, I may have a defective unit.  (It's actually the Leviton product.) Short of buying a tester, can I test the thing somehow?  I'm sorry I didn't think to raise this aspect of my situation sooner!

Thanks!

Georgie

[Brian H]

The PZZ01's manual shows it can couple a split single phase or even three phase.
Though for it to work it has to be wired to breakers on each phase and if on a split single phase L2 and L3 are jumped together on the unit.
It also needs its N connector connected to Neutral and if I read the installation guide correctly. The direction the main Neutral wire passes through it make a difference.

If this is a large complex. Do you know if it is feed by three phase and each unit may use two of the three Lines and the common Neutral? One clue would be your Line to Line was closer to 208 volts and not close to 240 volts.

A rough test of it coupling the phase would be turn off the two breakers feeding the PZZ01 and see if part of the installation now doesn't respond. Well that is when you X10 neighbor isn't locking things up.

Not as cheap as X10 but Insteon has over 16 million addresses to mess with and unless the controllers address is in the modules memory. It will not respond to a command even from a correct address from the unknown controller.   

[JeffVolp]

The PZZ01 should attenuate incoming signals, but it will not totally isolate your system from the outside world.  There was another fellow who installed a PZZ01 to try to prevent noise coming in over the powerline from interfering with his system.  While it did help, it didn’t totally block the noise, and he eventually gave up on his X10 system.
 
If I was confronted with the problem you describe, the first step is to try to stay away from each other’s housecodes.  If that is unsuccessful, I would attenuate the remaining incoming X10 signals even further with local signal suckers, and then boost my own signal levels to overpower the signal suckers.

Jeff

[dave w]

Dave W.:

Since the PZZ01 blocks X-10 signals in both directions, I suspect I couldn't affect him much, but it's worth a try to see what he does.

As to replacing parts or all of the system, I think I'll not do that... at least just yet.  This is an irritation and puzzlement, but most of the time everything works.  I'll change House Code again before spending more money.

BTW, can you confirm that the PZZ01 couples our two phases?  The only other problem I'm having is an apparent lack of such coupling.  If it's supposed to have that feature, I may have a defective unit.  (It's actually the Leviton product.) Short of buying a tester, can I test the thing somehow?  I'm sorry I didn't think to raise this aspect of my situation sooner!

Thanks!

Georgie

1. You are correct, as long as the PZZ01 has power, it will attenuate your outgoing signal. You would need to switch off the two breakers the PZZ01 is connected to.
2. Yep, changing house codes is the “no cost” way of dealing with the problem.
3. The PZZ01 is tried to both of your phases in order to sense any incoming (or outgoing) X10 codes on either phase. I do not believe it acts as a “phase coupler”, only as an attenuator. Brian H's suggestion of turning off the breakers to the PZZ01 and checking to see if you still get signal thoughout your condo is a good way to confirm my understanding of the PZZ01.

[Brian H]

The PZZ01 sheets says it is an X10 Signal Blocking Coupler and don't use it with an added phase coupler in the same system.
It also says it is a phase coupler between the phases.

I can also see why it may not stop the incoming X10 signals completely. It has a 30:1 attenuation ratio.
Indicates best results if both parties, with the problem, use a PZZ01.

[Georgie]

Gentlemen: 

When I installed the PZZ01 (actually a Leviton 6284), I triple checked to be sure I had the neutral running through the device correctly.  I've changed House Code once, but the offender seemed to "know" what I done and continued playing games unabated.  I'll do it again after "all else fails".

Here are the results of my tests:

  1.  Outlet voltage is 125v, phase to phase is 216 v.  Does that suggest 3-phase service?  If so, would that make coupling more difficult than with two phases?  The building is only about four years old; we have only two phases in our panel, FWIW. 

  2.  Switching the PZZ01 Cir Bkr off made no difference in the performance of our system, including continued poor performance for receivers not on the same phase as the transmitter. As I had recalled and Brian has confirmed, the PZZ01 is intended to provide coupling.  This suggests that the unit we have is defective.  If you agree, is there some other test I might make to confirm this?  I bought this thing over a year ago, so I'll have to eat the cost of a replacement.... and it'll be more difficult to get the panel Cir Bkr turned off to replace it since our new building is no longer in construction mode..... so I'd like to be as sure as is reasonable before trying it.

For example, would it make sense to simulate the neighbor's signals by connecting a transmitter to the meter side of our panel, and seeing what difference switching the PZZ01 cir Bkr off/on makes to activating receivers in the condo?
 
I've used X-10 gear for over thirty years and have never had this much trouble, so I really appreciate the advice you guys are offering.  Please keep it coming!

Cheers!!

Georgie

[dave w]

I stand corrrected on the coupling function of the PZZ01...thanks Brian!

[MichaelHlubb]

Brandt:

Sorry, I have no test gear. 

The neighbor frequently turns on one or the other of two lights we have under X-10 control and occasionally another, but never two others (...at least recently; he regularly turned one of those on in the past).  Whenever he/she does, we cannot control any of them, so I'm assuming he is continuing to send command(s). 

Cheers!!

Dick

hmm, No test gear.....

When I updated my X-10 setup to the current CM-15A, I was coming from an much older, CP-290 setup. That old controller had died ten or more years ago, the computer that was updating it died a few years before that.Durning all that time I never saw any neighbor using any X-10 commands, my major lighting in the Kitchen was on house code A, unit code 1 that entire time.

then the upgrade....... eeek!!! Setting aside the version problems of which work and which don't.... what I had occurring appeared to be someone else sending X-10 codes, and on those I was using.
solutions and findings.
1. don't use the A house code, I moved from house code A to house code B with the effected modules. and put in 16 dummy modules so when I try to add a new module to AHP it doesn't try to use that house code. Watching the status log (F2 key in AHP) I see NO A-## use now, where I was seeing it being sent by 'something'.
2. When I first moved from the A house code, I had also added 4 motion detectors, Eagle Eyes one and all, I had them setup as C1, C2, C3, & C4. I was planning on using them to control the cameras.... well I've found they worked out much better as being C1, C3, C5, and C7. leaving open the C2, C4, C6, and C8 addresses for the DUSK/DAWN ON/OFF they do!

Now, it's all working the way I need it to, there are a few bugs, it's X-10, so I can live with those. or figure some solutions out.

Bottom line, and why I write this in the first place. Without any way to test when/where/what is sending the x-10 codes, you simply can't know it's someone else or not.


Hanlon's Razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."