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Author Topic: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on  (Read 56306 times)

madbrain

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2010, 03:11:24 PM »

...... I would have to add a wireless bridge. Another $100 and 3 watts standby.

3 watts? You care about 3 watts? Do you realize that EVERY x10 module uses wattage... even when it just sits there and waits?

I had posted my thoughts about your thread. My post was deleted. Apparently.... environmentalism wins (too bad for X10). I guess there isn't much need for me to post here anymore.

3 watts standby times 365 days times 24 hours is 26 kwH per year. I can run my 8kw sauna heater for 3.5 hours with those 3 watts. So yes, I care about every single watt.
And I do very well realize that x10 modules use power. I have measured the usage of the x10 appliance modules (AM466) to be about 0.4W using a kill-a-watt. Obviously I wouldn't connect anything to it that uses less than a few watts, or it wouldn't make sense to have the module inline to turn off the load.
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madbrain

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2010, 04:35:08 PM »

Hey, I care about 3 watts it is those little 3 watt items that can leave me in the dark!

Yup. And if you have lots of 3 watt items, it really adds up.
Here is an excerpt of the items I want to turn off when I'm not home and their standby wattage :

- 4 battery chargers that each use between 0.3 and 1.5 watts idle. I am thinking of putting them on a power strip, controlled by a module
- shredder uses 1watt when idle. Clearly doesn't need to be on when nobody is home !
- Brother MFC-9840CDW networked laser all-in-one uses 27.6 watts when idle . This has a clock, but it's not critical. Too bad it doesn't have built-in NTP client. The savings from having this turned on/off will be big.
- D-link wireless router uses 6.4 watts. But I'm not going to turn this off, I already have some internet monitoring for my solar system. And I plan to have remote x10 access.
- cable modem uses 5.9 watts. Again won't turn this off due to the solar monitoring. And I plan to have remote x10 access.
- HP LP3065 30" monitor still uses 5.8 watts idle.
- Ooma hub uses 7 watts idle. This provides my telephone connection. Right now it's hooked up between my modem and router. It could be hooked up after the router and turned off when I'm not home instead. Not sure.
- Panasonic cordless phone base. Uses 1.5 watt.
- 5 Panasonic handsets throughout the house. Use 2.5 watts each.

- Roland VS-3100 Pro mixer . Uses 10.6 watts idle. Already have this on an x10 wall switch.
- M-Audio BX5A speakers. Use 8.9w idle x2 . Already have this on an x10 wall switch.

In the home theater, tons of things have idle standby power.
Trendnet gigabit switch 2.1 watts.
Polk subwoofer 6.6watts
Yamaha receiver 2.2watts
Boston subwoofer 8.5watts
HTPC (Asleep) 5.5 watts. Can't turn this off or it won't record.
Dish 722 DVR . 50.7 watts !!! Can't turn this off or it won't record. The power usage from having this on standby is about $15/month, vs the $55/month satellite service bill.
Yamaha DVD changer 0.3 watts. I can still  turn this off if hooked up to a power strip with a bunch of thing in one x10 module.
Sony SACD changer. This has a front power switch and not remote controllable for power. 0W standby, but 16.4W if front switch is left on ...
Yamaha Cd changer. 7 watts standby. Clearly never needs to be on unless I'm home.
Channel master antenna amplifier. 2.9 watts. This needs to stay on or the DVR and HTPC can't record OTA signals.
Zektor audio switch. 3.5watts. Doesn't need to stay on.
Simple Tech Hard drive. The power supply uses 5.7 even if the drive is off!
HDMI switch 2.9watts. Doesn't do anything unless I'm watching.
x10 ir543 receiver . 0.9 watts. needs to stay on
20+ air wick warmers throughout the house. 2.5W each ! And I thought the oil cost for these was the main cost. But actually power is just as bad. And it still drinks power even if the oil is out.
washer and 110V gas dryer use 1.6watts each. No clock in those. It still makes sense to turn those off together via x10.
3 Roomba chargers that take 3 to 6watts standby each. I have to allow for enough time to recharge the roombas, so not sure how long I want to turn those off. These might be good candidates for timers.
toothbrush chargers use 1watt each whether the brushes are on it or not. Probably not worth controlling.
sharp microwave takes 1.6w idle just to keep the clock. I don't know why I need a clock on a microwave. Timer yes, but clock ?

And the list goes on. It took me a week to go over everything with a kill-a-watt. There are still a few things I haven't measured like the 2 garage openers on standby (which I may not want to turn off, anyway - but thinking about replacing because they have no built-in light when opening). I also couldn't measure several hardwired appliances either with the kill-a-watt. I may need to figure out the standby usage them using the smartmeter and turning off some breakers and seeing the difference.

All those things may look small by themselves (except the printer), but they actually add up to hundreds of watts. I have accounted for 642 of the roughly 800 watts of standby so far in my spreadsheet. I might end up turning things off selectively with 20 to 50 appliance modules throughout the house that use 0.4 to 0.5w each. It would still be a huge savings.
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dave w

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2010, 08:39:59 PM »

I might end up turning things off selectively with 20 to 50 appliance modules throughout the house that use 0.4 to 0.5w each. It would still be a huge savings.
I can't explain this discrepancy with your Kill-A-Watt readings unless it has to do with the purely reactive power supply in the Lamp and Appliance Modules. But back in the mid 80s, the X10 VP of Technology Development told me no load current of the modules is 3 to 4 watts. Just the fact that they always feel a bit warm tells me they are sucking more than 5 tenths of a watt.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 08:43:37 PM by dave w »
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madbrain

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2010, 08:51:05 PM »

Dave,

I might end up turning things off selectively with 20 to 50 appliance modules throughout the house that use 0.4 to 0.5w each. It would still be a huge savings.
I can't explain this discrepancy with your Kill-A-Watt readings unless it has to do with the purely reactive power supply in the Lamp and Appliance Modules. But back in the mid 80s, the X10 VP of Technology Development told me no load current of the modules is 3 to 4 watts. Just the fact that they always feel a bit warm tells me they are sucking more than 5 tenths of a watt.

I haven't noticed any of my x10 modules running hot. Is it possible that x10 has been improving their power efficiency over time ? My oldest modules are from maybe 1999 or 2000. I have some x10 brand and some RadioShack. The kill-a-watt (P4460) measurements where the same. Perhaps they are inaccurate. These are readings over a short period of time. I just plugged it in for about minute and looked at the watts display, and it fluctuated from 0.4 to 0.5. I will try to run it longer term against one module without anything plugged into it and see what the usage comes to.

FYI, it looks like somebody else did measurements on x10 modules :
http://davehouston.net/x10-power.htm
They list 0.4W for the AM486 . Mine are mostly AM466 .
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troll334

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2010, 02:06:35 PM »

Madbrain,
Forgive me for budding in...couldn't help myself. Have you tried running X10 on your inverter yet (assuming you're running
true sinewave)? I've been thinking about it as I decommission TM751's and RR501's. I've got so many good dreams...
We'll see if Outback's really true sinewave or not :).
tnx,
mike
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madbrain

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2010, 02:14:50 PM »

Madbrain,
Forgive me for budding in...couldn't help myself. Have you tried running X10 on your inverter yet (assuming you're running
true sinewave)? I've been thinking about it as I decommission TM751's and RR501's. I've got so many good dreams...
We'll see if Outback's really true sinewave or not :).
tnx,
mike

I'm running Enphase microinverters. And my solar system is grid-tied. So, no true sinewave for me. I'm running x10 on the inverters - no need to ever turn them off.

EDIT: I meant I am NOT running x10 on the inverters ;)

« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 02:53:59 PM by madbrain »
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troll334

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2010, 02:51:17 PM »

Ah, very good. I'm off-grid for Fridge, freezer, some CF's and an entertainment center. A wonderful thing in S. Fla after
Wilma trashed us. Well, if I decide I can smoke a transceiver or two, I'll try it out and let you folks know. After all, what
better system to reduce energy usage than on a battery powered AC system... X10's a natural no-brainer there.
tnx,
mike
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Brian H

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2010, 02:58:40 PM »

I fried an earlier version TM751 on an APC UPS. While running on battery. Yes it isn't a pure sine wave type.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2010, 01:11:01 PM »

Ah, very good. I'm off-grid for Fridge, freezer, some CF's and an entertainment center. A wonderful thing in S. Fla after
Wilma trashed us. Well, if I decide I can smoke a transceiver or two, I'll try it out and let you folks know. After all, what
better system to reduce energy usage than on a battery powered AC system... X10's a natural no-brainer there.
tnx,
mike

I run X10 on a true sine wave inverter (Magnum) You should have no problem with an Outback!
The only issues I have is if I max out the inverters out put.
This causes some phantom signals But I think I've got them pin pointed now.
 >!
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jbmcc

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2014, 02:28:18 PM »

I see this is an older post and you may have solved it already, but I had a thought:  I am using an Arduino Uno with a Sain-Smart ethernet shield.  I know others have been able to control X10 devices with an Arduino also.  Could you use the Adduino/ethernet setup to be an interface with the X10 system?  If anyone wants my Arduino code, please post and I'll be happy to post it.  Good luck!
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Noam

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2014, 01:41:34 PM »

I see this is an older post and you may have solved it already, but I had a thought:  I am using an Arduino Uno with a Sain-Smart ethernet shield.  I know others have been able to control X10 devices with an Arduino also.  Could you use the Adduino/ethernet setup to be an interface with the X10 system?  If anyone wants my Arduino code, please post and I'll be happy to post it.  Good luck!
I suppose it is possible to do it that way, and I found a few examples online - but none were quite there yet.
In my case, my Arduino is connected to the TW523 emulation port on my XTB-IIR.
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madbrain

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2021, 07:44:43 PM »

I see this is an older post and you may have solved it already, but I had a thought:  I am using an Arduino Uno with a Sain-Smart ethernet shield.  I know others have been able to control X10 devices with an Arduino also.  Could you use the Adduino/ethernet setup to be an interface with the X10 system?  If anyone wants my Arduino code, please post and I'll be happy to post it.  Good luck!

I still haven't fully resolved this.

I have an Odroid XU4Q single board computer with a CM11A in my office. That consumes about 3W-4W idle.
The Odroid is also used for my Unifi controller.
I can VNC into it and used heyu through the command-line . It's very crude. Would prefer a good HTTP GUI. Not sure if one exists. I haven't researched it in a while. I haven't been expanding my X10 system, though. I have kept it to two rooms, only the home office and home theater. I have 4 hardwired switches for lights.

For the audio amps, I switched to TP-link Kasa HS100 modules that use Wifi to communicate. They have been reliable, much more than Belkin Wemo that I had before that. The reason I switched is that I think the loud relays in the X10 appliance modules were causing power surges on startup, which caused damaged to some equipment, including an ECHO Audiofire 12 mixer/Firewire audio interface. I now leave that one on 24/7. There are also driver issues that make it preferable to do that and not try to power it off ...

Kasa "works" with Google assistant, but that hardly ever understands my voice. The UI on the smartphone lists too many devices to scroll through, many screens worth, and is basically useless. I want a customizable HTTP interface ...
Ideally it should be able to integrate both the Kasa and x10. There is probably software out there that can do it. I just haven't looked lately.
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brobin

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2021, 08:45:06 PM »

Take a look at the Smartenit Harmony P2. It'll give you X10, Insteon & ZigBee control through an app or web portal. It just uses a cellphone charger for power.

The Smartenit Harmony P2 with a bundled Insteon 2412UPLM is $60 for both it's an economical solution that not only gives you Alexa skill supported control of X10 but an app and a sophisticated automation controller with email and text notifications.  I've been using it for almost 3 years and it's rock solid.  It's virtually plug 'n play so you can be up and running 30 minutes after you open the box.  Everything is done through an Android/IOS app or web portal from anywhere.  In addition to X10, you can also use it to control Insteon and ZigBee devices should you ever wish to.

https://smartenit.com/shop/zigbee-insteon-x10-multi-protocol-gateway-hub/

If you order be sure to click the selection to include the 'Add Insteon/X10 powerline only PLM.' bringing the total to $59.99.

Feel free to ask any questions.  A growing number of us here are using the P2 successfully.
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madbrain

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2021, 10:28:17 PM »

Take a look at the Smartenit Harmony P2. It'll give you X10, Insteon & ZigBee control through an app or web portal. It just uses a cellphone charger for power.

The Smartenit Harmony P2 with a bundled Insteon 2412UPLM is $60 for both it's an economical solution that not only gives you Alexa skill supported control of X10 but an app and a sophisticated automation controller with email and text notifications.  I've been using it for almost 3 years and it's rock solid.  It's virtually plug 'n play so you can be up and running 30 minutes after you open the box.  Everything is done through an Android/IOS app or web portal from anywhere.  In addition to X10, you can also use it to control Insteon and ZigBee devices should you ever wish to.

https://smartenit.com/shop/zigbee-insteon-x10-multi-protocol-gateway-hub/

If you order be sure to click the selection to include the 'Add Insteon/X10 powerline only PLM.' bringing the total to $59.99.

Feel free to ask any questions.  A growing number of us here are using the P2 successfully.

Thanks. The only Zigbee device I have is my Smartmeter. I have a Rainforest Eagle to connect to it.

As I mentioned, I use Wifi Kasa smartplugs for my audio amps. Just two of them, though. I don't see any Wifi smartplugs in the list of supported devices for Smartenit. I don't want to use the X10 appliance modules to the relay power surges.
I need 15amp smartplugs. The models I have are HS100 and I bought a 2-pack from Amazon last year for $40 + tax.

Zigbee hardware seems to be pretty costly. Not sure if I want to introduce a 3rd system in my house, especially a wireless one. I'm really not too fond of wireless. I prefer something wired with Ethernet, even if I have to use powerline ethernet modules to get the ethernet. They are slow, but bandwidth is just not needed for all this IoT stuff. If there were good Ethernet smartplugs rather than Wifi, I would buy some.
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brobin

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Re: Remote Internet access to x10 without leaving home PC on
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2021, 03:08:39 AM »

I just mentioned the Smartenit device for X10 control from afar via an Android or IOS app, through the web portal or Alexa/Google Home.  No need to use the ZigBee or Insteon protocols if not needed.  Of course the Kasa products have their own app.
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