Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[bdbx18]

I'm very much a rookie though I have dabbled with x10 for more than 15 years now.  In our current home, I have pretty much abandoned x10 and only have the 'essentials' left.  These are as follows:

4 SR227s receptables
1 ws467 wall switch
1 AM466 appliance module

All timed with the X10 LCD 64-event mini timer

I have had remotes, TM751s and a few other X10 parts that have been shelfed for many years.

Recently, I have the AM466 appliance module not work which led me to research the problem further when I came across this forum.

I have mapped all my circuits but I have no clue what phase they're on.  I thought I have added a phase coupler some time back to the breaker box but there may be another one in the pool filter break box as well.  I know it sounds kludgy but I don't have any electrician background.


Basically my questions are:

Q1. How often does these x10 modules fail or is it a factor that I have a lot of signal noise which affects the reliability?
- The reason I ask is because I have two SR227s that were not working or working sporadically.  But after I replaced them and it
has been consistent.  I now doubt whether some of the applicance modules I've had problems with are just that they have gotten bad.

Q2. Everybody here seems to use CM15s and nobody even mentions the use of a mini timer
- Is the CM15 transmit a higher quality signal or just plain more reliable and what is wrong with the simplicity of a mini-timer?

Q3. Is there a one or two-stop solution to x10 problems by just wiring in a XTBII phase-coupler and a XBCR repeaters without the hassle of troubleshooting?
- I guess I'll start the troubleshooting if they are problems after hooking in the XTBII and XBCR.



Thanks in advance.

[Brian H]

Q1 Not too clear. Did the replacement SR227 modules work better?
They have been known to have a plastic part wear out or the grease in the actuator get gummy.
When they misbehaved. Did the click a few times?

Modern electronics can effect X10 and other power line signals.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=9899.msg57946
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=fia4somvt646m1f9ar60hogk94&topic=7951.0
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm

Q2. The mini-timers have about the same output as the CM15A.
We have users with the mini-timers here.
If all you require is things controlled by a timer. The mini-timer maybe the best for your requirements.
The CM15A just allows more flexability. Like triggering things with motion sensors and other goodies.

Q3 There is no one or two stop solution for all installations. Things like looking for noise sources, signal absorbers and phase issues is a good place to start.

The XTB-IIR repeater coupler is a great device. I have one myself.
The XTBM X10 Test Meter is also a great tool for finding problems.

[dave w]

$0.02
I agree with Brian. If the Mini Timer meets your needs...stick with it.
The CM15A  with AHP software allows you use conditional logic like: IF it is Monday, Wednesday, Friday AND 9:00 AM run sprinkler pump. IF there is movement in back yard AND no one home, sound alarm for 10 seconds and email me. etc. etc.

The XTBIIR could come close to being a magic bullet. In the current home, did you ever have more X10 than you have listed? Did everything work at one time? The SR227 has it's own unique problem, but some of the symptoms you discuss sound like noise and Brian included all the best solution sources. But the XTBIIR besides coupling the two phases has the highest output, so may boost the X10 signal well above any noise levels. Which reduces the need for filters.

[bdbx18]

Q1 Not too clear. Did the replacement SR227 modules work better?
They have been known to have a plastic part wear out or the grease in the actuator get gummy.
When they misbehaved. Did the click a few times?

I have the SR227s close enough and my transmitter/timer far enough that I can't tell which clicked and which didn't.  To be clear, one SR227 fail to work more often than not in that it is always on or off.  The other SR227 failed in that it is always on and don't respond anymore.  In any case, replacing the SR227s seems to have fixed the inconsistency issue in that they both respond, (though it is only day two).

[bdbx18]

$0.02
I agree with Brian. If the Mini Timer meets your needs...stick with it.
The CM15A  with AHP software allows you use conditional logic like: IF it is Monday, Wednesday, Friday AND 9:00 AM run sprinkler pump. IF there is movement in back yard AND no one home, sound alarm for 10 seconds and email me. etc. etc.

The XTBIIR could come close to being a magic bullet. In the current home, did you ever have more X10 than you have listed? Did everything work at one time? The SR227 has it's own unique problem, but some of the symptoms you discuss sound like noise and Brian included all the best solution sources. But the XTBIIR besides coupling the two phases has the highest output, so may boost the X10 signal well above any noise levels. Which reduces the need for filters.

Thanks.  I thought I'll just get both the XTBIIR and the XBCR and hire an electrician to come out once and hook up both up instead of doing the trial and error thing.  Come to think of it, I do have two additional ws467s for the pool lights that I ALWAYS had a hard time getting to turn on even locally.  And I remember a electrician telling me many years ago, those switches goes bad all the time so I gave up on replacing them.

[dave w]

Thanks.  I thought I'll just get both the XTBIIR and the XBCR and hire an electrician to come out once and hook up both up instead of doing the trial and error thing.  Come to think of it, I do have two additional ws467s for the pool lights that I ALWAYS had a hard time getting to turn on even locally.  And I remember a electrician telling me many years ago, those switches goes bad all the time so I gave up on replacing them.

Why are you getting two repeaters?

The electrician who told you the WS467s "goes bad all the time" is likely refering to the chinzy push button, which is a problem. Otherwise the WS467 is really pretty reliable once you get a good PLC signal to them.

Part of your old problem sounds like marginal signal levels, and the XTBIIR should clear that up.

[bdbx18]

Well, I guess I was wrong.  One of the two SR227s I've replaced is still not working consistently.  Moreover, I have a backboard issue with the pool saltwater system so I went and shut off the fuses to it.  Now the one problematic AM466 at the distant garage seems to working again !!

Taking a closer look at the breaker box, I found the coupler I had installed years ago, a Leviton 6299.  So I ordered an XBCR to replace that coupler seeing that the XBCR also adds a repeater and a 'signal booster' and 3 XPFs filters for wiring into the ones where I find to be noisy. 

If this doesn't work, I guess I'll decide whether I want to lay out the cash for a XTBIIR and possibly a test meter, just to get a couple of lights to come on and off daily.  Then again, if I throw in the extra $300 for both and EVERYTHING works, I'm inclined to get a CM15A as well and go crazy all over the house.

[dave w]

Then again, if I throw in the extra $300 for both and EVERYTHING works, I'm inclined to get a CM15A as well and go crazy all over the house.

Welcome!   

BTW what is "the saltwater system for the pool"? Is that one of those electrolysis systems eliminating the use of chlorine?

[bdbx18]

Then again, if I throw in the extra $300 for both and EVERYTHING works, I'm inclined to get a CM15A as well and go crazy all over the house.

Welcome!   

BTW what is "the saltwater system for the pool"? Is that one of those electrolysis systems eliminating the use of chlorine?

Yes it is.  Eliminates the need to use chlorine tablets but increases my blood pressure because different costly parts of the system goes bad every so often.

[bdbx18]

I've decided to cancel my orders for XPF filters and the XBCR coupler/repeater and went ahead and ordered a XTB-IIR from Jeff.  Hopefully this will fix all my X10 problems.

[Noam]

I've decided to cancel my orders for XPF filters and the XBCR coupler/repeater and went ahead and ordered a XTB-IIR from Jeff.  Hopefully this will fix all my X10 problems.

I can't guarantee it, but I think you'll be very happy with the XTB-IIR.

For best results (and safety), it should be connected to a dedicated double-pole breaker, and Jeff recommends using a plug and socket, rather than hard-wiring it right to the breaker.

I went one step further. Once I was installing the double-pole breaker, and adding a box with the 220v outlet, I added a split-wired duplex outlet in the same box. That gave me two "test" outlets, one on each phase, which was handy with some troubleshooting I was doing. I didn't have to worry about anything else being on those circuits while I was testing.

[bdbx18]

I received my XTB-IIR very quickly, Thanks Jeff!  I was going to install it myself, just splice off the wires from the old Leviton passive coupler I had.  But then I found that it looks like it was incorrectly wired to the same phase for all this years; no wonder it doesn't work well.

So I called in an electrician who seemed dumbfounded at what he's supposed to do or what this unit does.  I guess he really wanted to see a schematic.  I instructed him to wire one to phase 1 and the other to phase 2 and then a common neutral (my old Leviton has two neutrals).  In any case, the LED came on every time I hit a x10 transmit button and all my lights work now !!  The lights to the distant garage works even with the pool pump going in high gear.  Thanks Jeff.

After all these years, I have a collection of x10 switches, LM15s, modules that I thought didn't work but hesistant on discarding.  So I took them all out and am currently surveying them for possible deployment.  I need some motion sensors to really get things going and may have thrown them away in the past.  The socket rockets I have are possibly bad since I can't get them programmed or even activate with A1 as it is.  But I'll get a AHP/CM15A and motion sensors first....  The bug has spread.

[Noam]

I received my XTB-IIR very quickly, Thanks Jeff!  I was going to install it myself, just splice off the wires from the old Leviton passive coupler I had.  But then I found that it looks like it was incorrectly wired to the same phase for all this years; no wonder it doesn't work well.

So I called in an electrician who seemed dumbfounded at what he's supposed to do or what this unit does.  I guess he really wanted to see a schematic.  I instructed him to wire one to phase 1 and the other to phase 2 and then a common neutral (my old Leviton has two neutrals).  In any case, the LED came on every time I hit a x10 transmit button and all my lights work now !!  The lights to the distant garage works even with the pool pump going in high gear.  Thanks Jeff.

After all these years, I have a collection of x10 switches, LM15s, modules that I thought didn't work but hesistant on discarding.  So I took them all out and am currently surveying them for possible deployment.  I need some motion sensors to really get things going and may have thrown them away in the past.  The socket rockets I have are possibly bad since I can't get them programmed or even activate with A1 as it is.  But I'll get a AHP/CM15A and motion sensors first....  The bug has spread.

Great to hear another success story!
Jeff really does put out some high-quality products. When I got my XTB-IIR, my dad (who is an EE with 40 years' experience) could not believe that the XTB-IIR was hand-assembled. He had never seen such a high level of quality craftsmanship in something that didn't come off a robotic assembly line. I passed that along to Jeff as a big compliment.

I can't wait to see what Jeff comes up with next ;-)

[Brian H]

Thanks for the update.
Now your fun begins as you add more and more X10 goodies. 

[dave w]

I received my XTB-IIR very quickly, Thanks Jeff!  In any case, the LED came on every time I hit a x10 transmit button and all my lights work now !!  The lights to the distant garage works even with the pool pump going in high gear. 

The socket rockets I have are possibly bad since I can't get them programmed or even activate with A1 as it is. 

1. See, we told ya, this thing is good!

2. The Socket Rocket should not go bad just setting in storage although A1 should turn them on unless they had been reprogrammed to something else earlier. To test or program the Socket you should only use an incandescent bulb. 60W will work. Also you should have the programming contoller and the Socket Rocket plugged in to same outlet. I only use a X10 "Maxi Controller" to program the SR. Someone help me on this, but I don't think you can use a TM751 or CM15A transceiver and a Palm Pad to program a Socket Rocket...at least I have always had trouble trying to program that way.