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[tlcnorm]

OK. So I decided to venture into x10. I am starting small and am already very frustrated. I have Active home pro, CM15a, xps3 and an appliance module. The appliance module seems too be working OK. The xps3 switch goes on when I activate it with AHP, but does not shut off. It is a front porch light. (cfl)
I have spent most of yesterday looking through this forum and have tried different things with no affect. (moved the CM15a and tried to turn off the switch with the dryer/oven on) No Luck.

I want to get more involved in x10, but I am off to a bad start. Any suggestions?

[Knightrider]

You got a CFL or other "ballast" type light behind the switch?

[dave w]

The xps3 switch goes on when I activate it with AHP, but does not shut off. It is a front porch light. (cfl)

As a test, replace the CFL with a standard incandescent bulb and see if it works. Some CFLs make electrical noise around the same frequecnies that X10 uses for it's powerline signalling. Switching power supplies (i.e. laptop power blocks, CFLs, cellphone chargers, Flat panel TVs, etc.) are noise makers, but in many cases the electrical noise they make does not effect X10. It is just a matter of identifying the offenders.

Let us know the results.

X10 doesn't stress this, but in most systems you will need a repeater to amplify and couple the X10 signal between the two phases of power in your home. Sometimes supplemental filters are also needed to filter the "stubornest" noise sources.

[tlcnorm]

When you guys say cfls cause interference, you do mean only when on correct? The switch in question controls 1 recessed fixture with a cfl bulb.

Is it odd that it almost always responds to "on" but never "off"?

Also, if there is a device in the home that causes interference like a PC or TV does that have to be "on" to interfere?

[tlcnorm]

X10 doesn't stress this, but in most systems you will need a repeater to amplify and couple the X10 signal between the two phases of power in your home. Sometimes supplemental filters are also needed to filter the "stubornest" noise sources.

I thought the test for this was the running dryer or 220 v oven? If so I did run the dryer for a while with the same results.

[Knightrider]

...
Is it odd that it almost always responds to "on" but never "off"?

...

No it isn't odd.  Think about it.  When the XPS3 is off, no power is applied to the noisy CFL, and the noise made does not block the "ON" command being received by the switch.  When you turn it on, the CFL makes noise and the XPS3 cannot hear the "OFF" command being sent.

Solutions:

1.  Get rid of the CFL for a quieter unit or a standard bulb.

2.  Get a repeater that throws a stronger signal to overcome the noise (Dave W calls them "Blowtorch" repeaters).


I think maybe in this case, the stove trick is TMI at this point, but coupling the phases CAN fix the problem.

This problem can be resolved, but it will take some effort.

[dave w]

X10 doesn't stress this, but in most systems you will need a repeater to amplify and couple the X10 signal between the two phases of power in your home. Sometimes supplemental filters are also needed to filter the "stubornest" noise sources.

I thought the test for this was the running dryer or 220 v oven? If so I did run the dryer for a while with the same results.

No, the 220V appliance trick is to test for a phase coupling problem. With the appliance ON the X10 signal gets coupled to the other power phase in the home thru the operating appliance. This does not test for nor indicate a noise problem

[tlcnorm]

Guys. Thank you very much. Here is where I am at. I turned off power to both TVs and their related devices and the 1 PC that is not running AHP and the microwave. Same results. Switch would go on and I could not get it to shut off.

I forgot that the switch controls 1 recessed light and also 1 garage fixture. I took the cfl out of the recessed light and still had the same problem, but when I took the cfls out of the garage fixture and the recessed light, switch worked great! I narrowed it down to the garage fixture. I put the CFL in the recessed light and left the garage fixture empty and the switch works great. I even checked the timer and that worked.

These lights stay on all night for security and that is why I used CFL. Are there less noisy CFL's or could I wire in a noise filter by the switch? The noisy cfls are the small socket type. 7w I believe.

Thanks for the support. I want this to work so I can expand on the system.

[tlcnorm]

Solutions:

1.  Get rid of the CFL for a quieter unit or a standard bulb.

2.  Get a repeater that throws a stronger signal to overcome the noise (Dave W calls them "Blowtorch" repeaters).

Sounds like you were right on. Could you point me towards these items? Thanks again.

[Brian H]

The JV Engineering XTB-IIR is sometimes referred to as the blow torch repeater coupler. It is what many of us here use.
http://jvde.us//xtb/XTB-IIR_description.htm

The ACT CR234 is a second best choice and has worked for many here.

Do you know how much current the problem light draw?
There are wire in filters made.
There is a five amp Leviton 6287. 20 amp by Act AF300 and X10Pro XPF.

[dave w]

Are there less noisy CFL's or could I wire in a noise filter by the switch? The noisy cfls are the small socket type.

I have perhaps a dozen GE 13W and 23W CFL's that do not bother X10. But they are standard Edison base. Yes you can put a filter on the light(s). You can get a wire in style and locate at the light fixture

[Noam]

... These lights stay on all night for security and that is why I used CFL. Are there less noisy CFL's or could I wire in a noise filter by the switch? The noisy cfls are the small socket type. 7w I believe.

You might want to try different brands of CFL bulbs.
I have bought some CFL bug-bulbs from Home Depot, that don't seem to cause problems for my X10 system.

I also recommend the XTB-IIR. If you aren't comfortable working inside your breaker box, you'll need to hire an electrician to install it.
However, it really is a great product, and works exactly as advertised. And Jeff provides great support for his products.

[tlcnorm]

You guys have been very helpful getting my home automation project started. The timers seemed to work perfect last night. For some reason the timers work perfectly when I use an actual time, but didn't seem to work when I programmed in "30 minutes before dusk." I assumed that when you put in "30 minutes before dusk" the lights should go on at the "on" time and they did not. I use the repeat command. Any suggestions?

I also recommend the XTB-IIR. If you aren't comfortable working inside your breaker box, you'll need to hire an electrician to install it.
However, it really is a great product, and works exactly as advertised. And Jeff provides great support for his products.

I realize this is probably a great idea and make for a more rock solid system, but I thought the idea of x10 was that it was an economical way to get into automation. If you need to invest in items like this and noise filters, would zwave, insteon or upb be a better/comparable priced system? I am not knocking x10, just curious. I am very excited to get my home more automated. My next project will be to automate the lights in the TV room in the basement and program that into my Harmony remote.

Thanks again.

[Knightrider]

First of all, I'm glad we could help.

The guys that responded to this post, excluding myself are some of the best around (along with some other guys that will read this post in the following week).

Yes, X10 is cheap, but not always as reliable as you might think.  When X10 came out, modern electronics didn't pollute the powerline with noise, and new tools are needed to make X10 work with all those new toys.

Insteon is susceptible to some of the same noise follies as x10 and is more expensive.  Z-wave seems to hit a limit when you get about 30 modules weighting down the system.  I'm not familiar with UBP, but I'd say there is a limitation there as well. 

 I've run a system with somewhere just shy of 200 devices on the x10 protocol for many years now and there's no way i could afford to do it with any other technology (I buy 8 units for $50 in package deals, or get stuff from eBay for next to nothing). 

When you factor in the price of a repeater, filters and an x10 signal meter, I think I'm still ahead of the price curve versus a good system.

[Noam]

... For some reason the timers work perfectly when I use an actual time, but didn't seem to work when I programmed in "30 minutes before dusk." I assumed that when you put in "30 minutes before dusk" the lights should go on at the "on" time and they did not. I use the repeat command. Any suggestions? ...

First, make sure that the time AND TIME ZONE are correct on your Windows PC. If these are wrong, then the dusk/dawn settings will be incorrect, as well.

Second, make sure that your location is set correctly in AHP. You get to it from the "Tools--> Hardware Configuration" menu. If this is incorrect, then the dusk/dawn tables will be wrong, too.

After that is done, verify that the dusk/dawn times in that table (in the Hardware Configuration screen) look to be about right for your location.

Download to the CM15A one more time, to make sure everything is set correctly.

Check the Activity Logs, to find out what commands are being sent, and at what times.