Lamp Modules (LM465) not turning on or off via AHP

[pvignola]

Thanks guys for all of your responses.  I have an electric dryer I will try to turn it on and see what happens.  My stove is gas so I guess that is out for this test.

I will also look at smarthome.com to see what they offer that might be a simple solution.

I will let you know if the dry test works out.

Thanks again you guys are the best!

[Noam]

If the dryer test works, then you should be able to buy a coupler or a coupler/repeater from Smarthome that plugs into the dryer socket. Just make sure you get the correct type (3-prong or 4-prong), and that you have enough clearance to plug it in.

[pvignola]

Thanks Noam.  I have some laundry to do so I will try the dry test later. .  I have a newer energy efficient Samsung dryer do you know if that will make an difference for this test?

[Noam]

It shouldn't make a difference, as long as it is 220, and is bridging both phases when it runs.

[pvignola]

They dryer test did not work.  I used the dryer but it had no effect on the lights on the other phase.  I guess I may have to look into wiring a phase coupler in.

[dave w]

They dryer test did not work.  I used the dryer but it had no effect on the lights on the other phase.  I guess I may have to look into wiring a phase coupler in.

CONSIDER A NOISE PROBLEM.

[pvignola]

Ok so I opened my electric panel and took a look at how the breakers were arranged.  All of the outlets I want to control are on the same side of the panel so I would assume that means they are on the same phase would that be correct?  If so Dave W seems to be correct in that it may be a noise problem.  On the other side of the panel is nothing or interest for me from a X10 control perspective so maybe I don't need to worry about phase coupling?

I tried moving the TM751 to different outlets downstairs which is on the same "side" of the panel as the lamps upstairs and it worked in some spots but not others.  I one case one lamp turned on while the other didn't.

Based on my very limited knowledge it seems like noise is a least a factor.

[dave w]

Ok so I opened my electric panel and took a look at how the breakers were arranged.  All of the outlets I want to control are on the same side of the panel so I would assume that means they are on the same phase would that be correct? 

NO! It depends on the manufacturer. It is *most common* to have vertical alternating breaker slots on opposite phase. i.e. Left side of panel, top breaker is phase "A", next breaker directly below is phase "B". This is the most common layout but is not inclusive. Your could be different...what is the brand?

One way you might be able to tell is: Look at your dryer breaker, is it a double wide vertically? If so, alternating breakers vertically aligned are opposite phase. This allows a single double wide breaker to pick up both phases for 220V appliances.

You still could have a phase coupling problem although the fact that your running dryer did not help your problem insinuates it is noise, but if your Samsung dryer has a DC variable speed motor it could be generating enough noise to prevent X10 commands from successfully coupling across the heating elements. Do you have a 220V water heater? If so, wait until someone takes a shower and try your test again.

[pvignola]

Ok so I opened my electric panel and took a look at how the breakers were arranged.  All of the outlets I want to control are on the same side of the panel so I would assume that means they are on the same phase would that be correct? 

NO! It depends on the manufacturer. It is most common to have vertical alternating breaker slots on opposite phase. Look at your dryer breaker, is it a double wide vertically? If so, alternating breakers vertically aligned are opposite phase. This allows a double wide breaker to pick up both phases for 220V appliances.

The dryer breaker is double stacked one on top of the other horizontally.

[Noam]

The dryer breaker is double stacked one on top of the other horizontally.

Then most likely your phases are arranged in alternating horizontal rows.
The first, third, fifth, etc. rows are on phase "A", while the second, fourth, sixth, etc. are on phase "B."

Armed with that knowledge, you should try your test again.
First try to put the TM751 on the same phase as the module you are trying to control. If that works, try moving both of them to the other phase.
If either experiment doesn't work, then you probably have something causing noise, or sucking up the signal on whichever phase isn't working.

You can then try shutting off one breaker at at time (not the ones with the devices you are testing of course - or move them to other breakers during the test), and see if you can figure out which breaker contains the device(s) that is/are causing the problem. Isolating those, using filters, would probably help improve your system.

[dave w]

The dryer breaker is double stacked one on top of the other horizontally.

You mean vertically (up and down) don't you? If so, then you can determine out what circuits are on what phase by following the example of the dryer breaker, it is straddling both phases. So plug a light into the same phase as the CM15A and see if it works. If it does, buy a repeater...even the XPCR for $18 off Ebay. If the llight  still does not work, start unplugging "possible" noise makers including all CFL bulbs. This sound like a daunting task but what I would start with is everything plugged into same circuit as the CM15A and retest.

OOPS sorry Noam, didn't see you.

[pvignola]

I will give that a shot.  Does the physical distance between the TM751 and the lamps come into play here?  I would guess it would if it's a noise but I'm not really sure.

[pvignola]

You mean vertically (up and down) don't you? If so, then you can determine out what circuits are on what phase by following the example of the dryer breaker, it is straddling both phases. So plug a light into the same phase as the CM15A and see if it works. If it does, buy a repeater...even the XPCR for $18 off Ebay. If the llight  still does not work, start unplugging "possible" noise makers including all CFL bulbs. This sound like a daunting task but what I would start with is everything plugged into same circuit as the CM15A and retest.

OOPS sorry Noam, didn't see you.
[/quote]

I mean that the breaker has two "pieces" one stacked on top of the other. Like this:

-----------------
|                     |
|          1          |
-----------------
|                     |
|            2        |
-----------------


I have 8 lamps connected now that work from the CM15a I am going to look to see what phase they are on perhaps the will all have a common phase.

[dave w]

I mean that the breaker has two "pieces" one stacked on top of the other. Like this:

-----------------
|                     |
|          1          |
-----------------
|                     |
|            2        |
-----------------


I have 8 lamps connected now that work from the CM15a I am going to look to see what phase they are on perhaps the will all have a common phase.

Yes, you have it now. It will at least help determine if phase or noise.

[pvignola]

Ok the more troubleshooting I do the less this all makes sense.  Here is how the breakers are setup

On the left hand side of the panel we have:

1,2 Dryer
8 Foyer
9 Family room
10 Loft
11 Bed 2 + 3
12 Master

So here is what I have setup:

In the family room I have 2 lamps modules and they work via AHP and the CMA15 is plugged into on of the outlets
In the loft I have 2 lamp modules that work via the TM751 but not AHP
In Bed 2 I have 2 lamp modules that work via AHP
In the master I have 3 lamp modules and one socket rocket all but one of the lamps works via AHP which I found a bit strange and may be noise related?

Based on your feed back it seems that the master, Loft, and Foyer should be on one phase while the Bedroom 2 and family room should be on another.

I took the TM751 out of the running and plugged one of the lamps that didn't work in the loft into Bed 2 and it worked via AHP---ah so it's a phase issue right?  Well it would seem as if that is one of the issues.

One would also think that if I plugged the TM751 into the foyer that the lamps in the loft would work via remote right?  Well one lamp worked and the other didn't when I did that.

The fact that the master bed modules work via AHP leads me to believe that there isn't a phase issue since they are on different phases.  I am most confused right now.