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[dhouston]

I use RR501 Transceivers as they are "polite" and both are within 8 feet of the Stick-a-Switch.

I'm not sure what that "politeness" buys you. I've never seen a problem with multiple TM751s and they also co-exist with the RR501.

Very old TM751s (>12 yrs, IIRC) waited for a rising ZC to send PLC. If two were on different phases and transmitted the same PLC in response to the same RF, they would collide 100% of the time but newer ones send PLC on the next ZC so those on opposite phases are in phase for PLC.

Another potential problem is with TM751s and motion detectors, especially when two or more motion detectors react to the same motion or the continuation by the same mover but, in my view, that's a problem with motion detector placement.

One caveat is that I do not recall ever testing with an original CM15A in the system. While I have two CM15As both underwent brain transplants shortly after I received them and they have no problems co-existing with other transceivers.

And, 8' may well be beyond the RF range of a Stick-a-Switch - the only one I had could only do about 10' and, even that, required it be at a right angle to the receiver - edge-on was nearly useless. With a passive radiator, range was improved to 30+ feet.

[Dave4720]

Well… rather interesting.

I glean that the S-A-S is the weak link.  I want to understand the particulars - which I don’t consider needless speculation - before I throw antenna mods around.

I have a 2-button remote that I can turn on office lights at work from across the building, to a RR501 under a metal desk!  When the S-A-S does not work, one instance is with a V572 (VERY good product, can’t see it needing antenna mods) 10’ away, and another instance is with a RR501 10’ away.

And again, palm pad, 2-buton remotes, and 4-button cc remotes do not have this issue.  Sounds like the ‘talker’, not the ‘listener’.

Interesting also, as commented in a post, is in both cases, the S-A-S is “on edge” towards the receivers.

Interesting also, as commented in a post, is in one case, the room has a motion sensor.  What if the motion sensor is ‘talking’ at the same time I press the S-A-S to ‘talk’?  And I would normally enter the room and press the S-A-S near the same timeframe.  (In this case, the receiver is the V572).  Would the RF transmissions step on each other?

I will try using a 4-button cc remote in the same positions and see if I get better consistency.  But if it’s the motion sensor clashing with the S-A-S, then antenna mods - nor other transmitters - aren’t the answer.

The XPT may be somewhat a solution.  In one case, I have the S-A-S next to an existing single width wall switch.  I could hog out and replace with a double width box and add in a XPT, but that makes it more a permanent install.

Good inputs …

[dave w]

What if the motion sensor is ‘talking’ at the same time I press the S-A-S to ‘talk’?  And I would normally enter the room and press the S-A-S near the same timeframe.  (In this case, the receiver is the V572).  Would the RF transmissions step on each other?

Yes.
The exception is if one transmitter is considerably closer to the receiver, or if one transmitter is considerably more powerful (probably not the case in comparing ERP of the S-a-S to a credit card remote) the receiver may maintain "capture" of the stronger signal.  The solid rule of thumb is: two transmitters on the same frequency, equal in power, transmitting in the same area, to a single receiver, will definitely beat against each other.

[dhouston]

I glean that the S-A-S is the weak link.  I want to understand the particulars - which I don’t consider needless speculation - before I throw antenna mods around.

The suggested antenna mods consist of two pieces of coat hanger wire and a few pieces of tape.

[dhouston]

It's been quite some time (4-5 years) since I played with these so my details may be off.

The motion sensor will transmit when it senses motion and then be quiet for some (unrecalled detail) period. If it sends 5 copies of the RF code, that takes about 500mS - it's not likely to be transmitting at the same time you press the switch unless you move faster than Speedy Gonzalez.

I have no idea about the innards of the transceiver in question but it surely has some method for not sending multiple PLC signals - the simplest method (which I used in the DIY BX24-AHT, which predated this companies transceivers and for which I published the source code) merely ignored further RF transmissions for 600mS (some transmitters always send 6 copies).

Dimly Recalled Detail:  I had the Stick-a-Switch mounted on my BR door with a motion sensor in the hallway about 4 feet away. The motion detector always registered motion and the switch always worked (at least after adding the passive antenna). Because of my spinal cord injury, I need light in order to walk - my feet have very little sensation so my brain needs to know where they are in order to tell them where to go - I had palmpads or switches in most rooms so I could control lights fore and aft.

[Dave4720]

Well, I did some testing.

I put an antenna on a cable TV SLM tuned to 310 MHz, just to see relative signal level differences.

The S-A-S measured fairly low.  Strangely, the 4-position cc remote did not show a reading at all.  However, the 2-button keychain remote stomped!  That makes sense, as it is intended to turn on lights or whatever from the driveway.

I put a 4-position cc remote in two positions where S-A-S’s have been intermittent.  The cc remotes never failed to work.

My conclusion, as far as signal strength goes, is the S-A-S is very marginal, as others have posted, and the 4-position cc remote is better.  And the 2-button keychain remote is by far the most powerful.

So I will change my S-A-S installations to 4-position cc remote somehow, and deal with the labeling issue, or somehow Frankenstein the S-A-S switchplate and buttons to the 4-position cc remote circuitry.

[Dan Lawrence]

I use RR501 Transceivers as they are "polite" and both are within 8 feet of the Stick-a-Switch.

I'm not sure what that "politeness" buys you. I've never seen a problem with multiple TM751s and they also co-exist with the RR501.

Very old TM751s (>12 yrs, IIRC) waited for a rising ZC to send PLC. If two were on different phases and transmitted the same PLC in response to the same RF, they would collide 100% of the time but newer ones send PLC on the next ZC so those on opposite phases are in phase for PLC.

Another potential problem is with TM751s and motion detectors, especially when two or more motion detectors react to the same motion or the continuation by the same mover but, in my view, that's a problem with motion detector placement.

One caveat is that I do not recall ever testing with an original CM15A in the system. While I have two CM15As both underwent brain transplants shortly after I received them and they have no problems co-existing with other transceivers.

And, 8' may well be beyond the RF range of a Stick-a-Switch - the only one I had could only do about 10' and, even that, required it be at a right angle to the receiver - edge-on was nearly useless. With a passive radiator, range was improved to 30+ feet.

What I said about the RR501 being "polite" is it waits until the line is clear before sending signals, which the TM751 does not do, it sends signals immediately.

[dhouston]

I put an antenna on a cable TV SLM tuned to 310 MHz, just to see relative signal level differences. The S-A-S measured fairly low.

Measure again after taping a passive radiator (18" of coathanger wire ) above or beside the S-A-S.

• http://davehouston.org/X10_feng_shui.htm

[Dave4720]

I put an antenna on a cable TV SLM tuned to 310 MHz, just to see relative signal level differences. The S-A-S measured fairly low.

Measure again after taping a passive radiator (18" of coathanger wire ) above or beside the S-A-S.

• http://davehouston.org/X10_feng_shui.htm

Ok, let's say I do this ... let's say I get better results ... does that mean I need to plan to nail a 18" coat hanger on my wall ... or is this just for academic investigation?

[dave w]

Ok, let's say I do this ... let's say I get better results ... does that mean I need to plan to nail a 18" coat hanger on my wall ... or is this just for academic investigation?

 

I have improved the TX range of a S-a-S with very small gage solid conductor wire (26, 28 ga) which might not be objectionable, depending on location. I have never tried flat copper foil wire, but it could be painted easily. WAF might be higher as opposed to a  CC remote attached to wall.....I'm just sayin'...

[Brian H]

  Now if someone would make a wireless X10 switch like this one is for Insteon.
 
http://www.smarthome.com/2444A2WH8/RemoteLinc-2-INSTEON-Wireless-Keypad-8-Scene/p.aspx

[dhouston]

Now if someone would make a wireless X10 switch like this one is for Insteon.

Pricey - like most Insteon gear but with some nice features, especially the rechargeable battery and the 50' range (if accurate).
At least the USB adapter for recharging is reasonable @ $5.

[dave w]

Now if someone would make a wireless X10 switch like this one is for Insteon.
 
http://www.smarthome.com/2444A2WH8/RemoteLinc-2-INSTEON-Wireless-Keypad-8-Scene/p.aspx

Yeah, I loved it also. Perhaps if we talked real sweet to Jeff or Dave H...ya think?   

[dhouston]

Yeah, I loved it also. Perhaps if we talked real sweet to Jeff or Dave H...ya think?   

Nah, even sweet talk is cheap. Required FCC testing for RF transmitters costs a few thousand so it's unlikely you'll find any takers.

[Dan Lawrence]

Since this topic is for the SS13A "Stick-a-Switch" I got my new one today and it's an improvement over the older ones.  It was easy to set the housecode from A to F and the switches are much easier to use, just a touch (not a "push) turns the lights on and off.