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[duffrecords]

I installed a WS467 wall switch with a Lights of America PAR38 dimmable LED flood light but I can't control it remotely.  If I replace it with an incandescent, I can turn that on/off and dim it using my computer, so I know the WS467 can communicate with the CM15A that is sending the commands.  If I put the LED bulb back in, I can turn it on or off and even dim it manually (so I know the WS467 is capable of dimming the LED), however, it will not respond to remote commands.  Does anyone know of any modifications that would allow dimmable LEDs to work like this?

[Brian H]

Using a dimmable LED bulb with any X10 two wire switch can be a problem. Since the switch steals power through the load. The LEDs electronics is probably making too much noise or has some filtering in it that is killing the X10 signals.

Leviton makes some wire in filters and noise blockers. I don't have any personal experience with them, but others here may have ideas.

[Noam]

I'm guessing you've tried BOTH "on" and "off" remotely?
You may have TWO issues at work here.
As Brian stated, the WS467 needs to steal power through the load. If the LED bulb doesn't allow that minimal current to pass through, the switch is "dead" with the light off, and won't hear any "on" commands.

When the light is on, the switch has power, so it *should* respond to the commands. However, if the LED bulb creates enough noise to block those signals, then the switch still cannot hear commands, so it can't turn off or dim.

Incandescent bulbs (which is what those switches were designed for) allow the small current to pass through them, thereby powering the switch when the light is off (it isn't REALLY off, it is dimmed so low that you can't see any light from it). They also don't (usually) generate enough noise to block or otherwise interfere with X10 signals.

[duffrecords]

Yes, I tried using both on and off commands--it responded to neither.  Another thing worth noting is that although I can dim/brighten the outdoor flood manually, it won't turn completely off unless I flip the disable switch at the bottom.  I have a set of LED bulbs in another room that can be manually dimmed/brightened all the way on or off but the WS467 doesn't respond to remote commands in that case either.

Anyway, it's clear this combination isn't going to work.  Is there an X10 wall switch that will dim LED bulbs?  I do have a neutral available in the box; it's just capped with a wire nut and not in use at the moment.

[Noam]

As far as I know, X10 doesn't make any switches that are specifically designed to work with dimmable CFL or LED bulbs.

Smarthome makes several different models (both in their Insteon line, and their newer "x10 only" line.
all of them require a neutral wire (which you said you have - so that isn't a problem).
I don't know if they can dim the dimmable LED or CFL bulbs all the way down, you may need to buy one to test it.

You will probably see different results with bulbs from another manufacturer (or even a different model bulb from the same manufacturer), but there is no way to know in advance *what* those results will be ("different" doesn't necessarily mean "better"). Some CFL or LED bulbs produce a lot of signal-blocking noise, while others don't.
I've also had CFL bulbs go bad on me (and my neighbor). They still lit up just fine, but would throw out enough noise as to cripple some or all of my setup.

Unfortunately, a lot of this may be trial-and-error until you find the right combination.

Another test you can do (to see if the LED bulbs are creating too much noise) would be to install one in a fixture or lamp that is NOT controlled by the X10 switch (but on the same circuit - or at least the same phase - if possible), and see if the X10 switch (with an incandescent bulb in the fixture) can still be controlled.

[dave w]

Anyway, it's clear this combination isn't going to work.  Is there an X10 wall switch that will dim LED bulbs?  I do have a neutral available in the box; it's just capped with a wire nut and not in use at the moment.

Since it has a neutral connection, you might try the XPDI3. It does not rely on leakage current through the load to power it's internal electronics, so  should not keep the LED lit in the OFF state. Although if your problem of controlling the LED bulb is due to noise being generated by the bulb when ON, the XPDI3 will not help with that. Like Noam said, you are dealing with two issues.
http://www.x10pro.com/pro/catalog/receivers.html#wire

[duffrecords]

Another test you can do (to see if the LED bulbs are creating too much noise) would be to install one in a fixture or lamp that is NOT controlled by the X10 switch (but on the same circuit - or at least the same phase - if possible), and see if the X10 switch (with an incandescent bulb in the fixture) can still be controlled.

Both the WS467 switches I've installed are in the same junction box (and on the same circuit).  One controls the outdoor flood, the other the living room ceiling fixture.  I did a test last night, similar to what you described.  I put an incandescent bulb in the outdoor light and left the pair of LEDs in the ceiling.  I was able to remotely operate the incandescent but not the LEDs.  So does that rule out noise?

[Noam]

If the LEDs were ON at the time you were trying to control the other fixture, then they *probably* aren't producing enough noise to be a problem.

If they don't pass any current when off, then the WS467 is still not a workable solution for controlling them.

Is the bulb in the outdoor flood also a dimmable LED?
I'm guessing that it can't dim down all the way, because the lowest level of current that the WS467 was designed to pass through an incandescent bulb produces a lot more light in the LED bulb.

If you don't need these lights to dim, then I'd look into one of the "relay" type switches (that need a neutral wire).

[Brian H]

I have a few of the new X10 only Smarthome modules scheduled to arrive this Wednesday.
I expect to see how they work with AHP.

Did you want dimming or On Off?  Toggle style or Decorator style switch?

X10 does make a Decorator style On Off only switch. The WS13A. Needs a Neutral power connection.

[duffrecords]

Yes, the outdoor flood is a dimmable LED.  I'd like them to dim/brighten because it makes the automation look more sophisticated.  It adds more of the "wow" factor for guests.  Toggle or Decora doesn't really matter to me.  I think I'll test one of the XPDI3 switches and if that doesn't work, then it looks like a pair of WS13A switches will be the only solution.

[kelly_s]

Yes, the outdoor flood is a dimmable LED.  I'd like them to dim/brighten because it makes the automation look more sophisticated.  It adds more of the "wow" factor for guests.  Toggle or Decora doesn't really matter to me.  I think I'll test one of the XPDI3 switches and if that doesn't work, then it looks like a pair of WS13A switches will be the only solution.

Duff, I'm curious if you have tried the XPDI3 module for your dimmable LED bulbs yet.  I too have some dimmable LEDs (Phillips brand) that work great with my dimming lamp modules, but I am unable to control them via remote control through my current wall switch modules that do not have neutral wires. 

[duffrecords]

Yes, the XPDI3 modules work fine with LED bulb I mentioned in my first post, as well as some other 6W LED bulbs from PhotonLED.com that I'm using in my living room overhead fixture.  The only drawback is if you dim it to a value between on and off, the light flickers.  So I just use 100% on or 100% off.  Thanks to dave w for the recommendation.

[kenrad]

Yes, the XPDI3 modules work fine with LED bulb I mentioned in my first post, as well as some other 6W LED bulbs from PhotonLED.com that I'm using in my living room overhead fixture.  The only drawback is if you dim it to a value between on and off, the light flickers.  So I just use 100% on or 100% off.  Thanks to dave w for the recommendation.

You might want to consider some of the x10 compatible Insteon Dimmers from SmartHome.  I currently use these with my x10 setup and they work awesome with the dimmable leds.  The only draw back is they require a neutral wire in the switch box


 

[Brian H]

I have been playing with a Philips EnduraLED bulb that first tests show do work with two wire X10 dimmers.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=67l8soj6g8bncsk5bvohlgsq50&topic=25967.msg146236#new

[Backward Engineering]

I recently bought 2 of the CREE 8.5 watt dimmable LEDs sold at Home Depot.  I found that they work very well with my WS467 and WS12A X10 modules.  I returned to Home Depot and bought 6 more.  I have not had any problems with this LED controlled by my X10 system.

I also have a 5 meter LED light strip that is powered by 120 volts ac that I'm working on.  The X10 WS467 module does not respond with this LED strip connected.  However it works with a lamp module.  Therefor I'm looking at using the WS467 or WS12A module modified with a neutral wire.

Don