Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Brian H]

It is soldered on to the PC Board in the FilterLinc. Sorry for being unclear.

[bkenobi]

Ahhh, ok.  Thanks for the clarification.

[bkenobi]

Hrmmmm....  I thought that I was looking pretty good with the current configuration, but over the last couple days I've noticed that the Powerflash based motion sensor is struggling again.  There's obviously something causing this, so I'm looking forward to testing things out with JeffVolp's XTBM!  I was skeptical that it would be used that much, but I'm fairly confident at this point that it will help determine where my noise generators are.  I highly suspect that the new furnace is the core of the issue, but the meter will either verify that and/or show me what else is an issue.

[bkenobi]

Just a bit of an update:

I purchased an XTBM kit from JeffVolp and put it together a few days ago.  This thing is AWESOME!  I've found that I have a few issues around the house that need addressing.  I always suspected the A/V UPS in the living room needed a filter as did some component of the furnace, but with the XTBM in hand, I was able to figure it out.  The UPS definitely needs a filter.  The furnace needs a filter on the first circuit which contains the fan and circuit board (probably the fan only).  Also, the power inserter for the Directv dish is a signal sucker and needs isolation but not the UPS it's plugged into.  I'll probably buy a couple 10A FilterLinc's and, after I hear back from the furnace manufacturer, probably 2 XPF's to wire in the blower fan.  It's possible that if I reduce the other problem areas enough, I won't need to filter the furnace...but probably not.

[dave w]

The furnace needs a filter on the first circuit which contains the fan and circuit board (probably the fan only). 

bkenobi
FWIW

I had Lennox Pulse furnace that wiped out half the house for X10 communications. My problem was a switching power supply on the furnace control circuit board, the fan motor (standard AC induction motor with H,M,L windings...four wires) was not a noise maker.  I was able to put a small filter in the 120V line to the circuit board and make X10 happy.

[bkenobi]

Ok, I'll have to do a little looking.  The blower motor is variable speed and has 2 sets of inputs.  It appears that one connection is for the variable speed controlled by the board and the other is a slow speed for low speed circulation controlled by the thermostat directly.

This is a Goodman Brand (American Standard's other line) variable speed, 2-stage system.  I called Goodman after hours last night and need to call back today to see if I can find out if they have any known sources.  If not, I'll poke around to see if the power supply could be the source.  The only concern is the draw on the board and not using a filter that's too small.  I see a 3A fuse, so that's probably the max over current that they could foresee.

Thanks for the input!

[bkenobi]

I tested all of the stuff around the house that looked to be likely offenders for noise.  Turns out that the biggest is the furnace (as expected), but there are a few others that I'll have to deal with as well.  I'm planning on installing an XTB-IIR to replace my XPCR.  That's the final solution (plus filters) hopefully.

I did some research and found some details about the furnace.  The first image is the wiring diagram for the furnace.  As you can see by the red boxes, this is where the circuit board gets it's power from the L1/L2 220 power coming from the panel.  I'm not going to filter at the panel since this is a 60A breaker.  I need to filter inside the furnace so that I'm only filtering the power going to the logic board where the noise is coming from.  This furnace has a 24VAC transformer which is apparently standard.  I see that the correct way to install the filter is via the 240 split-phase diagram from the second picture.  The problem is, I don't think I have neutral in my furnace box.  If not, I guess I'll either have to pull a neutral line or do something different.

I guess if I'm going the XTB-IIR route anyway, perhaps I could just try things unfiltered to see if I need to add a filter on the furnace.  Not ideal, but maybe good enough.  Anyone have any thoughts on that approach?

[Brian H]

I would try the XTB-IIR first.
On my worse circuit with 6 two way modules on it. My XTBM reads 1.50 volts of X10 signals when the XTB-IIR is connected.

[bkenobi]

Do you recall what your pre XTB-IIR signal strength was on that circuit?  I'm curious if the drop in signal strength is an offset or if it's scaled.  If you start out at 5v and the signal sucker drops the strength down to .50v (10x or 4.5v drop), does that mean that the strength would be 25v->2.5v or would it be 25v->20.5v.  As long as it's strong enough, I suppose it doesn't matter.  I'm just curious from your experience.

[Brian H]

I did some varied repeater tests as found in this thread.
They are the output readings at the breaker box. On the test rig.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=l8hij5hln2l9ito4l3dcrq7a12&topic=24038.0

Reading in the branch circuit I was mentioning.
I had done some repeater tests with a custom test rig and some different repeaters.
They where patched directly into two breakers in the homes panel.
Two TM751s feeding the Line 1 and Line 2 AC inputs of the test rig.
Readings on the circuit I mentioned Left Fireplace Outlet. With XTBM
Smarthome 2826B  ID#12    Line 1 0.11    Line 2 0.26
Smarthome 2826B  ID#14    Line 1 0.18    Line 2 0.28
ACT CR134                 Line 1 0.52    Line 2 0.65
ACT CR234                 Line 1 0.50    Line 2 0.65
Leviton HCA02            Line 1 0.20    Line 2 0.27
Leviton 6201              Line 1 0.15    Line 2 0.26
X10Pro XPCR              Line 1 0.13    Line 2 0.26

JV Engineering XTB-IIR TM751 in front outlet. 2.00 volts
      

[bkenobi]

Ok, that's really helpful!  I was trying to determine if I'd get a boost from some locations high enough to make it worth the effort.  The PF that this thread started in regards to is sitting at 0.31 even with all major offenders disconnected.  At that rate, filtering will possibly help other locations, but it will have zero effect on the primary driving device.  But, since the signals you mentioned are in the range of what I have and post XTB-IIR they are certainly acceptable, I'd say it's a no brainer.

I'm going to get a XTB-IIR and replace the XPCR ASAP.  I don't think it's helping all that much other than bridging the lines.  I'm certainly not getting a boosted signal strength that was reported by X10 in the literature.

I'll order a few filters and install them just so I don't have any nagging issues down the road.  Looks like I'll need a couple XPF's for the furnace and a few 5-10A plug-in as well.

Once I get everything installed, I'll update this thread as to the new signal strengths.   

[systemdm]

Bkenobi,

Adding this to my system with the XTBR took care of any intermitten problems I had.  I highly recommend it. 

http://jvde.us/xtb/XTB-ANR_description.htm

[bkenobi]

I got my XTB-IIR installed into the main panel to replace the X10 XPCR that I've been using for a few months.  I can say that from limitted testing, this new repeater is AWESOME!  I checked the signal strength from an outlet that was getting very low signal strengths (~0.11 from the CM15A via palm pad RF command) and with Jeff's device, I read ~5.  I still find that I have low signal in an area with nasty signal suckers, but I'm waiting for my plug-in filters to arrive to resolve that.

I tested the motion sensor on the PF and it worked every time.  I'm hopeful now that this will be resolved with the plug-in filters and perhaps a pair of wired ones in the furnace.  Thanks for all the help!

 

[bkenobi]

I installed the 4 Smarthome 10A plug-in filters earlier this week.  I'm not sure why, but the wireless MS16A motion sensors seem to be having issues now.  I think this is more related to the massive amount of water that keeps bombarding them and fogging up the lenses (meaning water is getting inside).  I suspect that water is reducing the range of the antenna since adding an RR501 very close to the module fixes the issue.  I guess I'll have to bring them inside to dry out and then seal them with silicon everywhere I can!

But, the good news is that I THINK the wired modules are working correctly.  I'll be reviewing the logs today so I'll be able to know for sure then.

[bkenobi]

Looks like all of the effort I've put in so far has gotten me an improvement, but not a solution yet.  I've reviewed the log of PF activations over the last couple days since I got the filters installed and my reliability has gone up quite a bit.  I'm currently at 1.5% missed commands (that I know of) versus over 6% before.  This is good, but not perfect yet.  I have a pair of XPF's on order that will go into the furnace, so hopefully that will help get me over 99.9% signal reliability!