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[Phinnay]

hey there!
I've been working with my X10 system since the late 90's and have had good luck with it. We just moved into a new (older) home and nothing is working! The weird part is if plug my X10 keypad into the same outlet as a module, that doesn't even work!

I have a feeling it is a line noise issue. If i plug an X10 XPPF filter into the outlet, and then connect my X10 stuff to the "appliance" side, I can control any module just fine.

A friend mentioned that the BX wiring might be acting as a giant antenna and filling my electrical system with line noise. I don't know if this is possible but my last home was 100% romex and there were no issues.

I am not sure how to troubleshoot this or if if can be fixed, has anyone else ran into simalar problems?

[JeffVolp]

The BX metal sheath is supposed to be grounded, so that should be even better than Romex rejecting radiated noise.

Does your new home perhaps have one of those new smart electric meters?

Jeff

[Phinnay]

no, it is an older home (new to me haha) with a standard meter... 100a service in a new breaker box. Some of the newer circuts are Romex (air conditioner outlets, fridge, etc..) but the rest is all BX.

I will check and confirm the sheath is gounded tonight... I can not imagine why it wouldnt be.

[Brian H]

Any of the new breakers the Arc Fault type?

[dave w]

Noise/ Signal meter. XTBM
http://jvde.us/xtb/XTBM_description.htm
But if you have a level of noise so great that a controller in the same outlet as an Appliance Module can't control the module...it should be easy to find. Since you are an experienced X10 user: Plug a radio in an Appliance Module and start out plugging your controller in the same circuit. Turn off all other breakers and see if you can control the radio. If you can, you at least have a starting point. Begin moving the radio to other branches, repeating the test. If you can not control the radio, try the same test on another circuit, turning off the circuit you just tested.

[Phinnay]

no arc fault breakers yet - are they known to cause problems?

I was considering the XTBM but hoping it was something simple before laying out the cash.. i was amazed that things did not work plugged into the same outlet! must be one heck of a noisy device

[dave w]

Or your entire house is a signal sucker. 
Start playing with the breakers. If you are sure you don't have a Smartmeter then you should be able to get some clues by using breaker isolation.

[Noam]

CFL bulbs, noisy power supplies, older noisy florescent ballasts, etc.

[Phinnay]

ok, using breaker isolation and removing CFL's, i got the problem down to one circut breaker.

on this circut, there are five outlets and my front door light, all outlets are empty and the light bulb is out on the front door... none of the outlets on this circut will work with the X10 - i plugged in a controller and a lamp module to each one and tried to get it to light, nothing.

The other circuts are fine, no issue now that i removed some CFL's and put a filter on the microwave - those things were causing the rest of the problems..

I tried an outlet tester and it comes back with fault - i took apart the outlet and it seems none of them on this breaker are grounded. The cable going in and out is this fabric covered cable with two wires, red and white both covered in plastic. The casing looks good, no cracks... just no ground.

I am not sure what to do, the outlets are the new 3 prong style, but the green screw is not connected to anything... Im pretty sure that is against code but I am renting so not sure what i can do about it..  does anyone know a work around for this type of terrible wiring

[Brian H]

Do the outlets have a label on them. Indicating they are powered by a GFI Breaker?
I am not an electrician but I believe old two wire outlets can be replaced with a 3 pin grounded one and the ground no connected. If the breaker is a GFI and the outlets have a label on them indicating the setup.
I am in a similar situation myself. Two wire Romex and no ground wire in the cable with two prong outlets.

[Phinnay]

Nope, only way i knew was my surge strip saying wiring fault... Popped off the cover and saw it was only two wires.
have you had simalar problems with X10 and your wiring?

[Brian H]

No my two wire with no safety ground was OK with X10 and now Insteon.
Though I also have a JV Engineering XTB-IIR that blasts an X10 signal all over my home.
Worse outlet has 1.15 volts of X10 signals when read by a JV Engineering XTBM.

Was marginally OK with an ACT CR134 or CR234 Repeater Coupler and filter use on problem devices.

[Knightrider]

I'm voting on a tiny arc somewhere in the ungrounded circuit.  So I'm paranoid, but also a firefighter.  Something isn't right in this situation and the cloth covered no ground line would be on my fix-it list.

[dave w]

on this circut, there are five outlets and my front door light, all outlets are empty and the light bulb is out on the front door... none of the outlets on this circut will work with the X10 - i plugged in a controller and a lamp module to each one and tried to get it to light, nothing.

I tried an outlet tester and it comes back with fault - i took apart the outlet and it seems none of them on this breaker are grounded. The cable going in and out is this fabric covered cable with two wires, red and white both covered in plastic. The casing looks good, no cracks... just no ground.

So you are saying that you can plug a controller in one outlet and an Appliance Module in another outlet on same circuit, and with front light turned off and nothing plugged in to any other outlet and the appliance module will not work? Are you sure you have completely traced the entire path of that circuit?

Are any of the outlets near water where they could become very damp (utility room, basement, etc. ) As Knightrider suggested about the small arc, I have had Christmas lights laying in water creating enough leakage to wipe out X10 in most of the house. But you could also have a hidden path for that circuit (dishwasher, furnace, etc. ). At this point a X10 signal meter may be needed, or one of those circuit tracers where you plug a transmitter in one outlet and can sniff the transmitter signal at other outlets, fixtures, appliances. Lowes, Home Despot, etc, have them for about 30 bucks.

[Phinnay]

So you are saying that you can plug a controller in one outlet and an Appliance Module in another outlet on same circuit, and with front light turned off and nothing plugged in to any other outlet and the appliance module will not work? Are you sure you have completely traced the entire path of that circuit?

Exactly. I went through and mapped all the circuits in my house, everything is accounted for and I know what breaker does what. I was originally having this noise issue everywhere but removing CFL's and adding XPPF's to noisy appliances fixed things on other branches. I can successfully use X10 on all branches, except this one.

Breaker #9 controls five outlets and my front porch light. If I plug a controller (I have a RadioShack branded SD533) and a module (lamp or appliance) into any outlet on this breaker, nothing happens. Even if both devices are plugged into the same outlet, I'm still unable to control the module.

I no longer have this problem on any of the other branches, Example - my SD533 plugged into an outlet on breaker #5 controls a module on breaker #2 just fine.

The biggest head-scratcher is, why is this happening on just one breaker? what happens at the breaker that is attenuating the interference and isolating it from all other circuits?