Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Questions about wall dimmers  (Read 5727 times)

aptalca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 35
Questions about wall dimmers
« on: May 15, 2011, 01:23:46 AM »

Does the ws12a have a plc transmitter in it?

I was under the impression that it did. So that when you turn the light on at the switch, cm15a would pick up on the plc signal and ahp would register it as being on.

If not, are there any wall dimmer switches that send some sort of a signal to cm15a when the button is pressed at the switch?

I am about to move to a new house and was planning on setting up the entire place with a complicated home automation system. I originally picked X10 because of cost and availability. However, without this basic feedback, I can't do a lot of the macros I was planning to do. If AHP cannot even tell whether a light is on or off (even worse, claim that it's off when it actually is on) then there is no way I can monitor my place or devices efficiently.

So far, I have only been using a few LM465's and a couple of RR501's combined with CM15A and SS13A's; and I have been extremely happy with the setup and reliability. I can efficiently monitor the status of all the devices through AHP with 100% accuracy (even through remote desktop or several mobile applications). However, after the move, I will be relying on decorator style wall switches. I didn't realize I would lose the accuracy of AHP monitoring.

Does anybody have any advice on how I can overcome this problem with X10, or should I consider zwave for wall switches and use x10 for security?

Thanks
Logged

B.A.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 2
  • Posts: 115
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 08:46:10 AM »

Insteon and Leviton make decorator style switches that
Send their address when locally toggled. Both are X10
Compatible. You need a neutral for the Insteon switches.
The cost of these are significantly higher than X10.
Logged

JeffVolp

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 117
  • Posts: 2177
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 08:48:02 AM »


The X10 wall switches do not transmit their status.  Some 3rd party switches, such as the Leviton HXC10-1TW, will do what you want, but they are much more expensive than the X10 switches.

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 298
  • Posts: 13032
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 09:19:00 AM »

The Insteon switches. Can have an X10 address added to them as mentioned.
The dimmers handle the dim commands differently than X10 chose to use. So locally dimming one will send a X10 Address and a %dim that AHP knows nothing about. Also the extended dim command from AHP will be ignored by an Insteon Dimmer. The old style stream of dim and bright commands should be followed.
Logged

marcbaillairge

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 1
  • Posts: 16
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 08:08:36 PM »

I don't know if ws12a have a plc transmitter in it. But I try to Poll the module and isn't response. I look for schematic but I can found only for ws467.

I'm curious because to the difference between the ws467 and ws12a, the ws12a contains an additional module on the side with more transistors, diodes, resistors and ect. I wonder if this module is a dimmer memory or other things. Does anyone know the role of this module and if you have found the schematic of ws12a?
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 298
  • Posts: 13032
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 06:15:01 AM »

None of the X10 modules presently being sold are two way. No power line transmitters in them.
Except maybe an RR501 transceiver if you can still find any.
The older LM14A Lamp, AM14A {two pin}, AM15A {three pin} Appliance modules where two way.
I have not seen a WS12A schematic. The added small board maybe a AGC circuit for the power line receiver. We had seen indications {no X10 verifications here} of them having AGC.

I know a few of the X10Pro modules came with or without AGC.

Leviton made some two way switches but I don't know about availability.
Some Insteon Switches can have a X10 address added to them and are two way but the dimmer versions use the preset dim {%dim} command. AHP does not understand. They do report full On or Full Off. Dim levels are not.
 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 07:32:02 AM by Brian H »
Logged

marcbaillairge

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 1
  • Posts: 16
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 08:08:24 AM »

Hi Brian, Thanks for explanations about the AGC. I read a lot about Leviton expensive modules. At this point, I will go with a more stable protocol for but I already invested $$$$ in x10 with AHP, SDK, WGL RF32 transceiver, 2 x HAI controlers, IRLink for multimedia and a lot of wired 16cux10 relays board and x10 hundred units. Maybe 256 address are not an enough for me, hihihi. I'll look for another way to get feedback of WS12A with RF key pad. The problem is to change the address and the battery.
Logged

bkenobi

  • PI Expert
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 22
  • Posts: 1981
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 11:27:31 AM »

It might be possible to modify your wiring approach such that you could get what you want with X10, but it would be complicated and probably more expensive than just using Insteon.  The only approach I can think of would involve using modules inside the lighting (or inside the current switch box) and using modules to transmit PLC commands rather than locally/directly controlling the light/device.  In other words, use modules like the XPT to send commands and use XPDM (dimmer) or XPFM (relay) to control the device or lighting.  You can use any kind of PLC control to turn on the lights/devices you want (RF or PLC transmitters).

This will NOT give you a 2-way communication to your modules, however, since there is no local control, all commands would be visible to your CM15A.  So, as long as your communication on PLC/RF is 100% reliable, you would have knowledge of what state devices are in.  If you lose power or your CM15A goes offline for some period of time, things could certainly go out of sync, though.

IMO, if you want reliability, Insteon is the way to go for local control since it transmits it's local commands on PLC so CM15A can see them.  They are many times more expensive than X10 but I can say that the one module I have installed is much better look/feel/quality than WS467.

JeffVolp

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 117
  • Posts: 2177
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 11:52:25 AM »

IMO, if you want reliability, Insteon is the way to go for local control since it transmits it's local commands on PLC so CM15A can see them.

There are also Insteon/X10 modules that do transmit X10 status.  I used them here while developing the XTBM-Pro, which measures and reports the signal level of the status response from those modules.

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

bkenobi

  • PI Expert
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 22
  • Posts: 1981
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 11:09:11 AM »

There are also Insteon/X10 modules that do transmit X10 status.

Yes, that's what I meant.  The Insteon switches that work with X10.  I haven't tried using the status reporting feature, but since they always send a PLC command as well as locally controlling, I have never needed to check the status.

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 298
  • Posts: 13032
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 12:43:27 PM »

Insteon modules with an X10 Primary Address added.
Will respond to an X10 Status Request.

Only problem is dimming modules not fully On or Off. Report a %dim that AHP does not understand. At full On or Off. They do respond with the Status On or Status Off.
Same for a local On, Off, Dim or Brighten. They send an X10 On or Off but again a %dim that other X10 devices on the same address will not follow if partially dimmed or brightened.

I have an old KeypadLinc Dimmer that does not act exactly as I stated above. It seems to send X10 Bright and Dim command and a status request gets back an On and a %dim, if not fully On.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 01:10:54 PM by Brian H »
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 298
  • Posts: 13032
Re: Questions about wall dimmers
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 01:42:03 PM »

2876DB Icon In-Wall Dimmer Switch.
A8 X10 Address Added.
Log and commands sent with a Smarthome 1132CU Interface. Running Smarthome Manager Essentials.

Turn On with Local Paddle and do a Status Request.
R: A8 - 1:28:22 PM 12/20/2012
R: AOn - 1:28:22 PM 12/20/2012
T: A8 - 1:28:31 PM 12/20/2012
T: AStatus Request - 1:28:34 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:28:35 PM 12/20/2012
R: AStatus=On - 1:28:35 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:28:36 PM 12/20/2012
R: AOn - 1:28:36 PM 12/20/2012

Turn Off with Local Paddle and do a Status request.
R: A8 - 1:28:45 PM 12/20/2012
R: AOff - 1:28:45 PM 12/20/2012
T: A8 - 1:28:54 PM 12/20/2012
T: AStatus Request - 1:28:55 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:28:56 PM 12/20/2012
R: AStatus=Off - 1:28:57 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:28:57 PM 12/20/2012
R: AOff - 1:28:58 PM 12/20/2012

Dim up from Off with Local Paddle and do a Status request.
R: A8 - 1:29:11 PM 12/20/2012
R: 38% Preset Dim 1:29:11 PM 12/20/2012
T: A8 - 1:29:22 PM 12/20/2012
T: AStatus Request - 1:29:23 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:29:24 PM 12/20/2012
R: AStatus=On - 1:29:24 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:29:24 PM 12/20/2012
R: 38% Preset Dim 1:29:25 PM 12/20/2012

Dim up from 38% with Local Paddle and do a Status request.
R: A8 - 1:29:37 PM 12/20/2012
R: 55% Preset Dim 1:29:38 PM 12/20/2012
T: A8 - 1:29:48 PM 12/20/2012
T: AStatus Request - 1:29:49 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:29:50 PM 12/20/2012
R: AStatus=On - 1:29:50 PM 12/20/2012
R: A8 - 1:29:51 PM 12/20/2012
R: 55% Preset Dim 1:29:51 PM 12/20/2012
Logged
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.