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[carlos_AR]

Greetings!

I am going to be building an office pod in my garage... think of it as a 8x10 room with its own climate, lighting, etc.  I've been wanting an X10 system for years and now with this new office space, my better half has agreed to let me set it up in the office.

What I want is keyless entry, climate control, two sets of lights (regular and blacklight) and an extra plug for coffee pot or whatever...  I would like it all to run on one of the computers that's going to be in there.  I have a basic AI system that can react and run macros on voice command so I plan on hooking it into my X10 system to run it automatically.

I was planning on buying the $69.99 starter and the $49.99 starter, it seems to be the two best options with most of what Im looking for.  Unfortunately with no idea exactly what I need, I hate to get things I don't need or worse, get the devices and not everything I need is there...

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks!

[dave w]

X10 does not do keyless entry or climate control...at least not well, or not with out a large amount of hacking... Z-wave does.

X10 does INCANDESCENT lights pretty well, and if you have neutral lines in your wall switch boxes can do flourescent. Coffe maker is questionable. X10 can be falsed and X10 signals can be corrupted by noise. If your garage power feeds are all on the same phase you should not have a phase coupling problem, but you may have a noise problem. Although more rare, X10 can be falsed to ON. Power flicker or complete outage with a "brown-up" causes my house to go nuts. So I frequently have our system send OFF commands to everything in the house that should not be ON when we are gone. What ever you control with X10, ask yourself. "What is the worse that can happen if this comes on and no one is around?" Yes I control coffee makers, space heaters, electric blankets, etc. But all are set up while asking myself the "what if" question.

http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
 

[carlos_AR]

Thank you for the reply!

Well, the 'What If' is really not that big a deal... worse case scenario, the coffee burns, the lights get left on and the AC runs until Im around to shut it off...  And with teh coffee pot Ive got, its so low power anyway that really the coffee may not burn.. LOL

Here's what Im thinking....

I did a little research... bummer about keyless entry, was hoping for the coolness factor.  My idea was to have the door on a spring so it would pop open if it became unlocked.  The 'room' is going to be in the Garage which already has a security system, so Im not worried about anyone breaking in... like I said more for the coolness factor.

Bottom line...  what I need is 4 actual outlets... One for the blacklight bars (they run on normal 110) and one for the track lights, one for the coffee pot, and one for the computer monitors.  The actual computers will be on a circuit all their own direct from the battery backup from the house's main power box.  The room itself will be on that same circuit but plugged into a different outlet.

Everything being controlled by X10 will be within 10 feet of the main computer where the 'broadcast' device will be.  In fact the broadcast device will be in the room while the PCs will be outside the wall.

I know this whole concept seems waaay out there...  What Im dealing with is a job where my computer setup consists of 7 monitors and 4 computers on the same system, all running on one keyboard and mouse.  We're having a new baby so Im losing my office.  The only possible room is the garage which is not insulated and gets waaaay too hot 5 months out of the year to even consider working in there.  I work typically 18 hours or so a day, at least Im in front of the computer that much, and the only option seems to build a self contained room INSIDE the garage.  I figure if I'm constructing a 10x10 room JUST for my computer setup (printers, devices, etc) I may as well have some cool toys in there.  Besides, the whole idea of setting up X10 so the lights and AC get turned off if I forget just seems like a great idea.

That's of course not to mention being able to phone the computer and tell it to turn everything on would be incredibly useful... and cool...

Just need to know exactly what I should buy.

If I could just walk into a Lowe's or a Home Depot and pick this stuff up, I would do that, but since it's online, I am putting myself at the mercy of you guys that know the system.  So whatdya think?

Now I do have another question... the lamp dimmer thingies...  those seem to be just plugs that control the brightness of the lighting... is there just a plug that turns the lights on and off without a dimmer? I think that's really all I need.  But I dunno... thats why I'm asking

Thanks again

Just thought of something else...  Those outlets that are in the catalog, do they work independently of each other?  What I mean is the jack has two plugs... when you tell the system to kill one of the plugs, will the other one stay on?

[Brian H]

Computer power supplies and many other electronic devices are power line noise makers and signal suckers.
You may have to add some heavy duty filters and if they are on a battery backup UPS type device. They also can cause power line problems and some of them when on battery have a modified AC sine wave. That candamage X10 equipment.

X10 makes a plug in appliance module that is strictly On and Off.
At one time there was also an AC outlet you could install. The top outlet was X10 controlled and the bottom was always On.
I believe it maybe discontinued.

Some folks here have substituted Insteon Modules that can have an X10 address added to them or went strictly Insteon. Insteon also can have similar power line issues.

[carlos_AR]

Hmmm...

So what you're saying, I cant hook up monitors or lights to an X10 system because of line noise... then ummm...  what do you use it for?

There's a guy... cant recall his name... but he's got his apartment set up running off his Mac with an X10 system, and he's an IT guy too... so I dunno how he's got it working then if it's not possible because of line noise... or am I missing something?

I don't intend to hook the X10 line up to the battery backup... just the computers.  Im often working with loads of data and a power flicker can sometimes cost me hours of work... so the PCs are on batter backup... 

Saw something on another site, isnt there a X10 device that plugs into a regular outlet that you can then plug something into?

Just trying to figure out what I need to purchase.  If needs be I can hack whatever I need to later...  I guess I just don't want to end up with stuff I'm not going to use, that I end up buying just because I don't know any better

[dave w]

Hmmm...

So what you're saying, I cant hook up monitors or lights to an X10 system because of line noise... then ummm...  what do you use it for?

There's a guy... cant recall his name... but he's got his apartment set up running off his Mac with an X10 system, and he's an IT guy too... so I dunno how he's got it working then if it's not possible because of line noise... or am I missing something?

Nope, I think you got it. What we are saying is: a lot of switching power supplies (computers, power bricks for  notebooks and printers, cell phone chargers, any "lighter than air" wall wart adaptor for cordless phones, etc) generate electrical noise. SOMETIMES the noise is close enough in frequency to the X10 signal to corrupt or block the signals. Also, again, SOMETIMES the X10 signal can be attenuated to the point of being usless (signal suckers). Most UPS are signal suckers. Noise can usually be overcome by special X10 filters at the noise source, or by heavily amplifying the X10 on the homes powerline. In other words, you may have to budget more money than just a few Appliance Modules, Lamp Modules, a wall switch or two and a CM15A with AHP software.
Peruse X10.com and smarthome.com to see what you will need as far as appliance control, lighting control, etc. Smarthome is a good browsing place to get an idea of what is available.

[Brian H]

No I said you probably will have to have an X10 filter on the computer and electronic equipment to keep their noise and signal sucking from effecting the X10 power line commands. I have a Smarthome 10 amp FilterLinc on my UPS.

The ACT AF120 is a fifteen amp.
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/PCCInst/af120.pdf

JV Engineering has an XTB-F10 and XTB-F15 filter.
http://jvde.us//xtb/XTB-F10_description.htm

Smarthome FilterLinc is a ten amp one.
http://www.smarthome.com/1626-10/FilterLinc-10-Amp-Plug-In-Noise-Filter/p.aspx

[Brian H]

You will find lots of good intformation in the troubleshooting link dave w gave in an earlier post.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
This is another site with lots of good information.
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm

There is information on X10 devices in their wiki.
Though some modules are no longer available. Things like Lamp and Appliance modules are still available.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Home_Automation

[dave w]

My idea was to have the door on a spring so it would pop open if it became unlocked.  

That's doable with an electric strike plate w/power supply and a X10 Universal Module. Check ebay as I don't think X10 is making the UM anymore. Samrthome also has their own version called "I/O Linc".

[carlos_AR]

Thanks for everything.

I'll look into the filters.  I did talk to a rep and I have I think everything I need coming.  Hopefully it'll be here by the time I'm done building...

I'll also check out all teh good info you posted.

Thanks again!  So excited!!!

[dhouston]

So what you're saying, I cant hook up monitors or lights to an X10 system because of line noise... then ummm...  what do you use it for?

I tried to keep this explanation simple and straightforward. It may help you understand the issues.

• http://davehouston.org/noise.htm

[dave w]

Thanks again!  So excited!!!

Enjoy it while you can....it will change. 

[carlos_AR]

dhouston, very informative.  I completely understand how it works now.  

So then there are these questions:

In lieu of it being cheaper to just put another circuit in my power box to run the room on its own breaker, rather than buy a myriad of filters, would that remove the noise from other circuits? ex:  I put the room on Breaker 18 all by itself.  Will the rest of the breakers still cause line noise on that lone breaker?  

Again, I'm not intending to use the X10 throughout the house or even outside this one room.  So I get that I may have to buy filters for the devices that are connected to the X10 modules but if all the modules, together, are on their own circuit, do I then STILL need to get filters for the computers, and even the refrigerator, or TV or anything that's not on that circuit that may cause heavy line noise?

[dhouston]

If the room is served by it's own breaker, then you can add a filter that will isolate that circuit from the rest of the house. Lightolier, one of the higher-priced X10 based systems did this - calling the filter a firewall and keeping all of the X10 devices behind it. You would still need filters on the gear inside the room.

• http://www.lightolier.com/aboutus/pressroom/release_01-01c.jsp

However, given that you have no plans to use X10 elsewhere, you might be better off to look at Z-Wave. It costs more but does not use the powerline for signalling - it's all radio waves.  There are now several companies offering it. Leviton is one...

• http://www.automatedoutlet.com/Home/Vizia-RF-By-Leviton_2

[kenrad]

I have been running a hybrid system combining x10 and zwave for awhile now.  the software that I use if Ihouse.  It can be found and Ihousehomeautomation.com and it is freeware.  It is very powerful and allows you to combine both zwave and x10 deivces in macros.  Also the macros have far more options than AHP.  I have found that zwave is far more responsive and easier to set up than x10 if it is in a small area.  It runs on RF so distance is a concern a little but all zwave devices beam signals to the next device like a repeater.  so if it is a big enough setup it will correct the range issues on its own.  Also the fact that Zwave defices report local status changes back to the computer was a huge plus for me as I keep designing  my system to go greener and save energy and resources.

Just my thoughts

   Ken