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Author Topic: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on  (Read 3963 times)

Poco

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Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« on: February 27, 2013, 04:24:51 PM »

I have a simple system which has been working fine until now. One mini timer, two wall switches(ws467), one plug in appliance timer for a cfl lamp, one eagle eye motion detector, one tm751 transmitter.

The wall switches will turn the light on and off using the button at the switch. If on they will turn off remotely using the mini timer or eagle eye or remote control module,  but they will not turn on. The switches control exterior incandescent lights. The appliance module works fine. Bothe installed wall switches act the same.

I have replaced switches, transmitter. Unplugged timer and appliance module. No change.

What could cause these switches to accept the turn off code, but not the turn on. I am at a loss.
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dave w

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 06:20:01 PM »

When light switches turn OFF and not ON or turn ON but not OFF it is usually very marginal signal levels at the switches. Could be noise or signal sucker, less likely is phase coupling since they do respond to OFF. If possible try this: Turn off all breakers except that feeding the switches. Plug the TM751 or the Mini Timer in an outlet on the same circuit and see if the switches respond to ON. If they do you need to trouble shoot.

http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
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Poco

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 08:51:57 PM »

Thank you Dave. Based on your reply and some reading on your website regarding noise and signal suckers I did a short version of your diagnostic recommendation. Since it used to work what could I have added to cause a signal problem? I started unplugging things until it again worked. What it turned out to be was an Eco-I-lite(which is a led night light/flashlight/emergency light and is always plugged in to charge and monitor). I got two for Christmas and really like them. They are a great flashlight when needed besides providing a night light. Now I have to get a filter to use them I guess.

Lesson learned. If you get an Eco-I-lite or any other plug in device it might affect your x10 system. What really threw me was the fact that the OFF signal worked but not the ON signal. And it was 100% of the time - not intermittent.

Thanks again.
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Brian H

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 05:57:57 AM »

Glad you found the problem and reported back your findings.
Many fix their problem and never report back their findings.

I believe we have seen that device mentioned here before or a device with a similar function.
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dave w

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 08:43:38 AM »

What it turned out to be was an Eco-I-lite(which is a led night light/flashlight/emergency light and is always plugged in to charge and monitor). I got two for Christmas and really like them. They are a great flashlight when needed besides providing a night light. Now I have to get a filter to use them I guess.
I have two of the Eco-Lite also, and they are terrible noise makers. My units are the older, larger base, and there was enough room in the base to hack in chokes from old Lamp Modules. (the chokes won't handle the load when you hack Lamp Modules to power 2kW studio lights, so I had a few unused chokes laying around). If you have the newer more compact units there isn't enough room to wire in the choke. A five amp filter will work fine, but will mess up your plug orientation. No joy.

BTW the trouble shooting is Jeff Volps website. Dave Houston also has an excellent noise tutorial which has a picture of the Lamp Module choke.
http://davehouston.org/noise.htm

I am out of spare chokes, so intend on finding a cheap sub on Ebay. Once I find something that works I will post.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 04:53:28 PM by dave w »
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Poco

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2013, 01:16:19 PM »



I am out of spare chokes, so intend on finding a cheap sub on Ebay. Once I find something that works I will post.
[/quote]

It doesn't make much sense for me to install a $20 device(xppf) to filter a $10 device so until I find a cheaper solution I will be looking for new night lights. I'll be watching to see if you find an inexpensive choke that will work. Thanks.
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dave w

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2013, 04:52:23 PM »

Poco, If you get them for 10 bucks, you got a deal. These are the ones I had to install lamp module chokes in.
http://www.amazon.com/Eco-i-Lite-failure-Handheld-Nightlight-Silver/dp/B001TA52CG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362174612&sr=8-1&keywords=eco-i-light
 The problem is the newer ones:
http://www.amazon.com/Capstone-Industries-565-Eco-i-Lite-Lithium-Ion/dp/B002XTPPBU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1362174612&sr=8-3&keywords=eco-i-light
do not have room for the choke. Too bad, because they are really handy units.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 05:01:02 PM by dave w »
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Poco

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2013, 10:06:42 PM »

Mine are not like that. They are a ten led model like this
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/283684/Eco-i-Lite-10-LED-Power/?cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Jellyfish-_-Facility_Supplies-_-283684&mr:referralID=51cf8845-82e5-11e2-b779-001b2166c62d
I got them for Christmas and I think they came from Costco for $25 a pair.

They are all induction charging, lithium ion battery lights I think. I wonder if the induction charging has anything to do with th problem?
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dave w

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 10:27:54 AM »

http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/283684/Eco-i-Lite-10-LED-Power/?cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Jellyfish-_-Facility_Supplies-_-283684&mr:referralID=51cf8845-82e5-11e2-b779-001b2166c62d
 I wonder if the induction charging has anything to do with th problem?
That is much newer model than mine. Also mine is NiMH instead of lithium batts.
Induction charging is only indirectly related. It's the power supply for the charging that creates the noise. That base looks too small to shoe horn a choke in to. BTW the Lamp Module choke is 110 microhenry, 6.8 ohm, 20ga wire. Ebay won't have anything exact. I probably will look for a choke with heavier wire to carry more current, but that is just going to increase size.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6pcs-Toroid-Inductor-100uH-5A-Toroidal-Ferrite-Core-Choke-Coil-TC22e-/150997206697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23282286a9
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 10:30:54 AM by dave w »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2013, 12:19:02 PM »

BTW the Lamp Module choke is 110 microhenry, 6.8 ohm, 20ga wire. Ebay won't have anything exact. I probably will look for a choke with heavier wire to carry more current, but that is just going to increase size.

Actually, the current will be pretty low for the LED light even when charging the battery.  I doubt that it even pulls 100mA at 120V.  You have to allow for the power factor, but one of the Miller 5800 series hash chokes in the 220uH to 1000uH range should do the job.  I used them in our own light fixtures back when CFLs first came out.

Jeff
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dave w

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 02:57:59 PM »

Actually, the current will be pretty low for the LED light even when charging the battery.  Jeff
Yeah, I know. I went down an unrelated rabbit trail. The toroid was an example of what I think I might need to tuck in an outlet strip. I'm just not sure how effective it will be.
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Poco

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 07:01:35 PM »

I am thinking about making a filter using a plug adapter(3 into 1). eBay has several miller 5900 chokes from 120 uH to 1500 uH. What would be the best to use? By taking out the two outside plugs I should have room to wire in the choke to the middle plug.
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Poco

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Re: Ws467 wall switch can't remotely be turned on
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 05:05:28 PM »

Problem is now solved. I purchased 4 Miller 5800-101-rc 100uH chokes on eBay. They are rated at .6A and they are small enough to fit in the base of the light. One in each light and two spares. All is working well now.

My thanks to Dave and Jeff for their help and knowledge and steering me in the right direction. I now have two working Eco-I-Lites and a much greater knowledge of how this system works.
Poco
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