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[bkenobi]

I have a mechanical timer on my hot water heater.  I believe they cost around $50-100.  It was installed when I bought the house, so I don't know about this one specifically.  I actually disabled it soon after moving in because it was causing a vibration that I didn't like (electronic would have eliminated this, but that would require replacing the unit).  I was expecting to see a big hit to my electricity bill, but found that not to be the case.  In reality, if you have a modern water heater, the water gets up to temp and holds pretty well without much extra power.  If you have an older tank, that might be different, but adding insulation can help.

I don't have experience with recirculation setups, but the biggest thing that would cause heat loss would be the uninsulated water pipes acting as a heat exchanger to cool the water.  I actually read one article that claimed that a circulation pump never works out to a cost savings even if you already have the pump installed.  I don't know from personal experience, but there are a lot of things like this that don't actually work the way the marketing tells us they should.

[JeffVolp]

The water circulation pump isn't necessarily to save energy, it is for convenience and water economy.  We have hot water immediately at all faucets and showers.  Before I installed that it would take about 30 seconds of wasted water before hot water reached the opposite end of the house from the water heater.

I thoroughly insulated all hot water pipes, and run the circulation pump just 70 seconds every 15 minutes except during the night.  That guarantees instant hot water anywhere in the house at any time of the day.

Jeff

[Steevo]

While I appreciate the comments, this thread is about using X10 automation to turn the pump off if I forget.  Not about installing another mechanical timer. I have a mechanical timer, I already know how to install and use it.  But that's not why I posted.

The energy savings desired are from turning the system off when it's not needed in a more dynamic way than using a mechanical timer. 

[Brian H]

Did you have a chance to try a Fast Macro?
That you should be able to download into the CM11A?

Was the On command being sent by the CM11A or another controller?
Not sure if an On command from the CM11A can be used to also start the Macro.
 

[Steevo]

I did try, I reported it yesterday.

So I still have the serial connected to the computer, I defined a macro to listen to G2 on, a 1 minute delay, (for testing) and send a G2 off.  I made it a fast macro and I was able to download it to the interface.  But it's not working.  

I click on at the miniconsole, the pump goes on, and nothing else happens. It does not turn off in one minute.

The macro is not working, or it did not receive the on command from the miniconsole.  
The miniconsole is connected to the same outlet as the CM11a.
The commands sent from the miniconsole are able to reliably turn the pump in the garage on and off. I can hear it when it's quiet.

I can indeed send commands to the pump from the CM11a with the on screen toggle, but that is not how I tried to start the macro. I used the miniconsole for that.

[Steevo]

Clearly the macro is not monitoring G2 for the on signal.
I am looking at activehome.

I just deleted my macro.  I had only one.  Now none, but a list of installed modules on the right, one is G2 and called water pump. A couple are called global, what are those?
I just created a new fast macro.
I tried to call it G2, but it says address G2 is already allocated. 
Well, yeah, it's an installed module. I need to monitor G2 for an on to trigger the macro.
I have no other macros.  I deleted them all.

Does the macro I create need to be G2 so it can monitor G2?
It won't let me create a fast macro and call it G2.
Or is there something I don't understand.  Likely.

[Steevo]

Maybe I need a macro called G1, that when monitored sends a G2 on, and after a delay a G2 off?
Hmm.

As I said, I don't know the first thing about Activehome. 
Sorry for all the questions.

[Brian H]

I never used the macro feature in Active Home.
I only had downloaded timers for light controls. So I am in the dark so to speak myself.
Try a G1 Macro and see if it can do what you want.
Keep the questions coming. It may jog someones memory.

[Steevo]

Create a simple macro with the trigger  the On signal for your water pump.
Add the condition to Delay 1 hour then add the signal to turn off your water pump.
click save and download to the interface if that option is available.
Macros are able to run up to 4 hours in length so the time you wish your water pump to run is no problem.
 

Tuicemen, the display I have is not like the AHP one you posted. I have activehome, not pro.
Can this be done with the activehome that I have, or do I need the pro version?
I sure don't understand the macros in acthivehome. I don't see the triggers, but in AHP the trigger was obvious.

Does activehome even have triggers?

I am looking into getting ahp running, I downloaded the marmitek version but it's unclear whether it supports my cm11a.

BTW, I registered for your forums but the registration email was not received. I registered for smarthome's forums and that was received.  I have no explanation, but I've seen that problem before on forum emails.

[Steevo]

Well, I figured it out.
I made a macro G1.  Added a module G2 with an immediate on
Now when I press G1 on on the miniconsole the interface sends a G2 on to the water pump with no delay.
That all works.
I put a .01 delay on the module in the macro, and used test, it does send an on after a 1 minute delay.  
That works.

What i have not figured out is how to add another macro step to happen after a 1 hour delay to send a G2 off.
How can an activehome macro be only one step?

Oh, I figured it out.
I grabbed another G2 module from the right pane and put it below the current G2 module in the left side, there's my second step. Duh!
I put a .03 delay off on it.  
Downloaded to interface.  Sent a G1 on from the miniconsole.
It turned on, and a few minutes later off.

It worked.
I just changed the delay off to .45, downloaded to interface.
I think it all works.  Dang.

[Steevo]

Ya know, I did all that and it worked.  
Came home later, and I can't talk to the interface.
I did test communications, fails.

I unload communications, quit activehome, loop back the serial and test with hyperterminal, and it echos.
Working,  Take the loopback off, quit hyperterminal, restart activehome, load communications, test and it still fails.
Quit activehome, start again, still fails communications.
I unplug the cm11a, take the batteries out, disconnect serial.  Unload communications.
Restart activehome, plug everything back in, and it still fails communications.

I quit activehome again, looped serial back, tested with hyperterminal, it works.
Quit hyperterminal, plugged the cm11a back in and start activehome again, it still doesn't work.
What do I have to do? Reboot?  This all hung up during the day while I was gone.

What the heck is so buggy about this serial stuff?  Is it this bad?  Geez.

 

 

[Steevo]

I rebooted, serial communication test still fails.
I rebooted again, unplugged the cm11a, took it's battery out, unplugged it's serial cable.
Still fails.

I just tried to use the macro I had defined from a miniconsole and it didn't turn on the pump.  Ah ha!
The module is the problem.
I changed out the cm11a for another one.
This one does respond on serial.

I will let it run a couple days and see if it stays reliable.

[dhouston]

  If you use X10 modules to control the pump, each module uses at least 3W...

Most modules use less than 1W when idle.

• http://davehouston.org/x10-sig.htm

[bkenobi]

  If you use X10 modules to control the pump, each module uses at least 3W...

Most modules use less than 1W when idle.

• http://davehouston.org/x10-sig.htm

Interesting.  I quoted 3W from an old thread on this forum, but I don't know how they calculated it.  Having actual data is much nicer!  The only thing I'd say is that these are for plug in modules and not the wired in ones that I thought was being referenced before (WS467 IIRC).  Those modules pass power through the load circuit since they are non-neutral modules.  Either way, this is for a pump which would not be controlled through the load so it's probably not consistent.

[Steevo]

The other CM11A quit talking, failed communications. It also would not respond to the commands I sent from the miniconsole. As you recall I have downloaded a fast macro to the interface.

I power cycled it and rebooted the computer and it works again.
Are those CM11A's known to fail? I have one more, I can try another.
I really need this to be reliable.

As to the power drain of the x10 modules, that was never a concern. 
It was only the water heater power drain I want to avoid.