Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[HyperionAlpha]

Hello folks.

I just ran a neutral wire between my living room track light and the switch box so I could install a WS13A. The good news is that it works, both at the WS13A switch and also from the remote. It also works from my SC1200A alarm, which acts as the receiver for my remotes. But there is one problem, and it isn't a small one.

The lights in the track flash and flicker randomly, any time the switch is turned off. I have no idea what to attribute this to and I've seen no mention of it anywhere in X10 troubleshooting online. The bulbs in the track are 9W LEDs, there are four of them in the track so it's 36W total, seems like it should be in a stone's throw of a CFL load. In fact I specifically got the WS13A because it was advertised as supporting these kinds of lights. Anybody ever encounter this before or have a clue what night be going on? Do I have noise on the line maybe? Could it just be a naff switch? I've linked a video below that shows the problem.

https://youtu.be/NTEon2Se570

[Brian H]

The X10 WS13A and X10pro XPS3 have a small sensing circuit in them to determine if the ratchet switch is On or Off.
This small current when Off can make the load act similar to what your video is doing.
I believe the small current is slowly building up the LED bulbs power supply until it turns On but then turns back Off due to the current can't keep them On. A different brand or model LED track light fixture may act completely different.

If you can as a test. Temporarily put a small incandescent bulb on the output see if things clear up. Some have used a 4 or 8 watt night light for the tests.

Some have used a 33,000 OHM 1 watt resistor but that requires very careful installation as the resistor has 120 volt on it when the WS13A is On.

We have seen others reporting this with LED and some CFL bulbs. I don't think the troubleshooting information covers this issue.

The neutral wire you ran. Was it from the same branch circuit as the line?

[dave w]

In addition to Brian H suggestions, are the LED bulbs dimmable? I have dimmable LED bulbs on an Appliance Module (plug-in equivalent of the WS13A) with no blinking.

[HyperionAlpha]

Well I just tried exchanging one of the LEDs with a halogen. The WS13A had been lighting its red LED at her switch constantly, but with the halogen bulb in the track it remains off when the switch is off. And the flickering is gone with the halogen in place as well. To answer Brian's question, I simply ran third wire from the switch to the ceiling fixture, and attached it to the neutral already at the ceiling fixture.

And thanks to Dave's suggestion: the LEDs in the track light are not dimmable (they are more than a few years old now). I'll try a newer LED and see if that helps.

[Brian H]

Sounds like you are making progress.
Keep us in the loop.
Later model LED bulbs could be the answer.

[dhouston]

Later model LED bulbs could be the answer.

Time might also be an answer. I have two of these...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JM72W6C?redirect=true&ref_=s9_simh_gw_p60_d1_i3
in BR lamps controlled by a lamp module. When new, they flickered (almost imperceptibly) when off but as they have aged, the flickering has stopped.

[HyperionAlpha]

Well, just having a single incandescent bulb in place stopped the flickering, so it appears that Brian's idea was on the right track. I replaced that incandescent with another GU10 LED, this one is dimmable, and it has also stopped all the flickering.

The logic behind this just seems a little bizarre.

1. LED lights in place -> Make sure you get a switch that works with LED
2. Get switch that works with LED -> Make sure that the LED is dimmable
3. Get LED that is dimmable -> Now it works great with a non-dimming switch!

If I had any inkling that the WS13A might not work with these switches then I would likely have acquired a different switch type from the start, because it appears that the bulbs I had just won't be working with an X10 switch of any kind. It isn't like I absolutely need dimming, but if I have to get new LEDs to use LED at all... oh well, I'm glad to have it working properly finally, now to get the rest of the house X10'd.

[Brian H]

Your problem was the original LED bulbs design.
It is quite possible a different LED bulbs even one that was not dimmable may have worked.

X10 modules are not unique with this issue.
I have seen Insteon module users reporting similar problems.

X10 dimmer type switches would have more issues. They steal power through the load and many dimmable LED bulbs act strange or make noise and kill the X10 power line signals.