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Author Topic: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength  (Read 22084 times)

bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2016, 10:20:54 AM »

I tested all the components and am compiling something to show what's what.  At a high level, I have 3 questions/concerns.

1) R4 is a 1.5k ohm resistor but when I tested it (installed) it showed 10 ohm.  This could be due to the test finding a lower resistance path, so I'm not overly worried about this.  I may pull this resistor to test it isolated.
2) R3 is a 330k ohm 1/2W resistor and tests to 328k ohm.  However, it took quite a while (~30 seconds) for it to work its way up to the full resistance.  I don't know if that's a problem or not.
3) The schematic shows 8 capacitors but I only count 7 on the controller.  I can't seem to locate C1 which is marked "220p Line Rated".

Brian H

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2016, 12:53:43 PM »

1) Your meter is probably turning the E to B junction on and you are reading the 10 Ohm R6

2) 330K R3. The meter has a few paths to capacitors including the 1000uF 25 volt main power supply one. So until the capacitors charge the readings will slowly rise. 328K is well with in tolerance and is part of the zero crossing detector. Used for signal timing.

3) I will see what I can find out. I maybe able to spot it in one of your photos. It may not even be in your unit. C1 is to keep real high frequency noise and RF from getting into it or back out to the power lines as noise.
 
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bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2016, 12:54:53 PM »

This table shows all components, their markings, correct and measured values, whether I isolated them or tested in circuit, and whether it is considered good or not.

ComponentPart NumberCorrect valueActual valueIsolated?Good?
C1220p Line Rated220pFwhere is this located?
C22u2 MY (mylar)2.2uF2.25uFyesyes
C3220n MY (mylar)220nF214.8nFyesyes
C4100p (100)10pF.25nFnobad?
C51000u 25Vcould not measureyesreplaced
C61n5 PP1.5nF1.63nF (from memory)yesyes
C72n2 CD (222)2.2nF2.54nFnoyes
C8220p CD220pF10.81nFnobad?
D1BZX85C18 18V 1Wyesreplaced
D21N4002yesreplaced
D31N4148noyes
D41N4148noyes
D51N4148noyes
D6zPY6818V18.34V when not transmitting (0.591V/0L)yesyes
D7red transmitnoyes
F1fuse wire00noyes
L1150uyesyes? No way to test
Q12SD667yesreplaced
R13k33.3k3.3knoyes
R222 1/2W2224noyes
R3330k 1/2W330k329noyes? Takes a long time to get up to full resistance
R41k51.5k10nono?
R51M1M0.998Mnoyes
R610109.9noyes
R71k51.5k1.483knoyes
R84k74.72k4.72knoyes
R93k33.3k3.3knoyes

bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2016, 01:02:34 PM »

I took a couple pictures this morning thinking I might be able to use them for diagnostics.  The component side isn't as clear as I hoped, but I think they are still useful.

Brian H

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2016, 06:22:16 PM »

Not sure but check the back side. Near the red LED. It is either some flux or a solder short between two runs. I believe the small adjustable transformer is on the component side where I may have seen what looks like a solder speck.

Your meter may have enough voltage on the test probes to turn the E-B junction On and you are reading R6 when you are trying to read R4 or the possible solder blob on the back is messing things up.

I didn't see the 220P capacitor in the photos. X10 most likely didn't use one in that model. As the RS Unit may not be exactly like the MC460.
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bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2016, 07:08:58 PM »

I used a solder remover so it's possible I got careless when blowing the removed solder out and sprayed the board.  I'll look it over and see if that could be the culprit.  Where on the picture did you see the area of concern?  I'll check everything closely this evening, but might as well double check that area.

dhouston

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2016, 07:43:50 PM »

I didn't see the 220P capacitor in the photos. X10 most likely didn't use one in that model.

And its absence would not explain the current problem.
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bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2016, 12:06:28 AM »

I used a magnifying glass and located a few small specs of solder and removed them.  No change.

I pulled R3 and R4 to measure them isolated.  Both check good though R3 still takes a long tome to reach full resistance.

I clipped the legs off Q1 since I hadn't done it before, but since it didn't interfere with anything it wasn't a big deal.

I also checked the original diodes that were replaced first (D1 and D2).  They both tested good, but the one I installed for D2 was a 1N4002 while the original was a 1N4004.  I'm not sure that matters though.  Also, I'm 99% sure they are oriented correctly but suppose one or both could have bseen reversed.  Any thougts on the correct orientation?  I believe the line should be on the side the arrow points in the schematic, right?

dhouston

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2016, 06:37:46 AM »

...R3 still takes a long tome to reach full resistance.
That's odd. I'd replace it if I had another on hand.
Quote
Any thougts on the correct orientation?  I believe the line should be on the side the arrow points in the schematic, right?
Right.
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Brian H

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2016, 06:45:06 AM »

1N4002 is only a 100 volt diode. 1N4004 is a 400 volt diode. I would try and find a IN4004 through 1N4007 diode.
http://www.diodes.com/_files/datasheets/ds28002.pdf

I thought you where having issues reading R7 the 1.5K resistor.
R3 330K taking a long time to read correctly. How long? A real long time maybe the meter taking a long time to stabilize or the resistor is defective.
You are not holding the meter probes with your fingers on the resistor leads? Meter maybe reading you skin resistance.
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bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2016, 08:17:57 AM »

Vetco actually sold me one 1N4002 and one 1N4005 by mistake so I can swap the other one in.

I pulled R3 and R4 and measured them with alligator clamps on the probes.  R4 was the one that was reading 10 ohm and it read correctly isolated.  I don't have another 330 ohm 1/2W resistor but could probably find one at some point.  My meter takes 2-3 seconds to read a small resistor and over 10 seconds for these 1/2W ones.

Brian H

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2016, 09:09:50 AM »

R3 is 330K not 330 Ohms. Red Red Yellow.
Could be your meter just takes a fairly long time to calculate its readings. If most all of them take awhile for the display to read steady.
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bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2016, 08:36:19 PM »

Correct, a little typo in missing "k".

I found something interesting this afternoon.  I plugged the controller into the XTB-IIR booster port and sent a command. I had my XTBM plugged in at the nearest outlet and saw no PLC commands.  I moved the controller to the same outlet and sent signals.  I saw signals in the range of 0.00-0.03.  If I test at my bench I see 0.17-0.20.  I have no explanation at this point.

JeffVolp

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2016, 11:00:51 AM »

This has been revised after thinking about it further.

The XTB-IIR requires about 2Vpp on the X10 Boost input to trigger its high power transmitter.  So the output from your controller was not enough for the XTB-IIR to recognize.

I suggest isolating an ordinary power strip with an XPPF filter to eliminate any possibility of a signal sucker, and then measure the output of your controller when plugged into that isolated power strip.  You can confirm the controller is defective by comparing with another transmitter.

Jeff

« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 11:21:58 AM by JeffVolp »
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bkenobi

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Re: Plug'n Power Remote Control Center (61-2677B) low signal strength
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2016, 01:08:08 PM »

I'll give that a try!
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