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Author Topic: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie  (Read 7245 times)

HyperionAlpha

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2016, 01:29:26 PM »

They're halogens, yes, on switches that interfere with the other switch.
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bkenobi

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2016, 06:11:18 PM »

120V halogen or low voltage (DC) halogens?  120VAC halogens are basically just incandescent bulbs and *should not* cause you issues.  If they are the low voltage type, then they have a transformer and that could be the issue.  You said you switched the bulbs in question to standard incandescent so I'd assume they are 120V, but then you can run a standard incandescent bulb in DC as well.

HyperionAlpha

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2016, 01:30:11 AM »

Okay clarification, I'm using LEDs here. I still have some 120V halogens however, and used them when testing this problem (and another problematic switch/track, thread elsewhere in this forum).  I don't want to use the halogens ultimately, I just popped one in to see if it affected the problem at all. (Which it didn't, so then I tried the lot of halogens, same result.)
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HyperionAlpha

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2016, 10:10:02 AM »

I thought I'd return to this topic as I've had some major work done, and later, solved this issue entirely. In the hope that this will help anyone else in the future, here we go.

First off, the neutral in my breaker box had been compromised. It was exactly as Noam and toasterking suspected, the neutral wires there were well-blackened with voltage spilling over. Wiring had also been split to cover new appliances installed by the previous homeowner without regard to the additional load, another part of this issue. It's actually a good thing that I had started looking at this or it might not have been discovered before a fire broke out. A friend of the family referred a good electrician who completely rewired this work, and installed a brand new breaker box and breaker switches. I also took the opportunity to install the XPCR active repeater, and I got a pair of Jeff Volp's XTB ANR noise filters as well. (I didn't install a PZZ01 at the time however, perhaps that would've been a good idea also. Oops.)

Wouldn't you know it, after all this work, this particular track light and WS13A were still not working. I could see the XPCR doing its job, as lights that didn't survive the jump were now working without me turning my stove on. But the XTB ANR filters each had a semi-continuous blinking going on, which only happened when certain lights were turned on. The two biggest culprits turned out to be the two track lights in the kitchen. The noise the XTB ANR filters were showing at their LEDs were on/near the 120KHz frequency that X10 uses, and went away when these two lights were turned off. I contacted Jeff for some insight. He replied that any time you find a light turning on remotely, but not turning off remotely, this is almost always due to the same light injecting its own noise back into the power line. Sometimes, this is due to the bulbs (and likely, if they are CFL or LED), but I'd already eliminated that here. So it seemed to be more due to the fixture than the bulbs, because the same bulbs were not-noisy in other locations in the house, and even the Halogen bulbs were noisy in these fixtures. The answer: the Leviton 6287. At only 5A, this filter does the same work as the 20A X10 XPF filter, but the most important part is that it is tiny, whereas the XPF is physically huge. I was able to install the Leviton 6287 inside the track light fixtures, and like magic, both of these lights no longer interfere with other lights in the house, and always turn off remotely. With everything stable now I can tackle the really fun stuff, setting up a server for scene controls, timers, etc.

Okay maybe I used the word "filter" too indiscriminately to describe the XTB ANR, it is in fact more of a noise reducer/signal booster and less of a filter. Also, I have no explanation for why the fixtures were noisy, when I removed their covers to install the 6287, I found nothing but wires nutted together and ground, no real hardware to speak of was up in there. But I guess I don't care too much when the 6287 solved all problems. It seems to me there is a need for the 6287 that isn't easily found without the 6287, and that's problematic when they are no longer made.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 10:15:57 AM by HyperionAlpha »
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Brian H

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2016, 11:00:56 AM »

Thank you for sharing your findings.
Glad the bad Neutral connections didn't result in more serious things.
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bkenobi

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 11:36:45 AM »

Where did you source the Leviton 6287?  I've looked for small inline filters like these and all seem to be discontinued.

JeffVolp

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2016, 12:29:01 PM »

Where did you source the Leviton 6287?  I've looked for small inline filters like these and all seem to be discontinued.

http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29082.0

Jeff
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X-10 automation since the BSR days

bkenobi

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 05:22:00 PM »

I forgot you said you had some.

HyperionAlpha

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Re: WS13A + Light switch fed from outlet = no workie
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 07:22:04 PM »

A retailer at amazon had some, they were available with amazon prime shipping so I had no charge. That vendor has just sold out after I bought five of his stock!
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