LEDs with X10 Wall Switch

[Noam]

When Tesla said he could provide free energy to every home, scientists of the day thought he was proposing the use of his "tesla coil" to transmit wireless power around the country. He was not.

And funny enough, the company that bears his name (Tesla, of course), now owns SolarCity, which actually DOES install free* solar panels systems.


* PPA and Leased systems are installed at no cost to the homeowner, and the homeowner buys the power from SolarCity at  a rate that is designed to be lower than the equivalent utility rate. Ask me about it if you're interested - I'm four years in and was saving money from day 1 ;-).

[gkamieneski]

The WS467 is made for incandescent loads only.
Even LED bulbs that seem to work. You may damage the bulb, WS467 or both.............
Adding one incandescent bulb in the circuit may calm it down.

I had thought of that myself. And I tried using one (regular 60 watt) incandescent bulb and one 60 watt equivalent LED... in a two bulb fixture. It worked great and I figured I was still saving about 52 watts when on. But then I got to thinking.... long before the LED goes bad... that incandescent bulb will burn out. Which in my (old wire-twisters) mind would leave me with an Unacceptable situation.

So... I removed the LED bulb. I know it is similar to the old 7watt night-light trick. But I just couldn't be secure with the safety of it. Maybe it's my age.

Dave, what do you mean by "secure with the safety of it"? I am finding this to be a temporary solution, 1 LED, I incandescent  in each pair of coach lights. Yes, in the meantime the normal bulbs will wear out, but I am still saving some energy.

[HA Dave]

..... Dave, what do you mean by "secure with the safety of it"? I am finding this to be a temporary solution, 1 LED, I incandescent  in each pair of coach lights. Yes, in the meantime the normal bulbs will wear out, but I am still saving some energy.

Never forsake safety (and the cost/expense of bad safety practices) in a effort to save a buck. It just ain't worth it. One of the great advantages of Home Automation is the safety and security if provides. But "the safety" provided is also largely part of the practices we use.

I have NO IDEA what will happens to a "incandescent only" switch/device... if/when left with any particular LED load (in this case after the regular bulb burns out). The pennies saved in electric use could vanish like the wind... with a small house fire... or even just a burnt switch or damaged expensive LED bulb.

The first criteria must be safety..... is what I meant.     

[gkamieneski]

Thanks. I was just looking for some clarification on "safety". What about replacing incandescent floods in the kitchen with equivalent LEDs? Wouldn't this too be a problem or is it the coach light pair example of 1 LED, 1 incandescent bulb?

[gkamieneski]

Sounds like, to feel comfortable, I need to replace with the WS469 and wire with the neutral wire. Still wonder about other incandescent fixtures where I have replaced the incandescent bulbs with LEDs. Except those fixtures are not X10 controlled so there shouldn't be a current remaining.

[Brian H]

If the fixtures are not controlled by an X10 WS467 they should be fine.
If the fixtures are controlled by a manual wall switch dimmer. They maybe fine as long as the LED bulb is specified to be used on a dimmer and act OK. As not all brand dimmable LED bulbs work with all manual dimmers.
Only other thing is the fixture is totally enclosed or in a damp location. The LED bulb or its box would indicate if there where any limitations.

[gkamieneski]

Thanks, Brian.

Until I can replace the WS467s, I have gone back to incandescent bulbs. I am going to install new WS469s to deal with this. My other fixtures containing LEDs (kitchen floods and dining room candelabra) are not controlled by X10 although the latter has a dimmer switch and the bulbs are dimmable LED.

I do have an older Black and Decker outdoor module that controls an LED spotlight for the front door and holiday lighting.

[Brian H]

The Black and Decker FWLROD module is an appliance type module in a waterproof case. It should be fine with an LED bulb.

[gkamieneski]

Thanks, Brian. That was how I was thinking.

[HA Dave]

Yeah... I have an entry ceiling light... wired without a neutral (home was built in 1943). I'd really prefer the light be LED as it is used a lot and being an entry give a "first impression" too. But to convert it I'd need to rewire the light and the switch. Not a project I am eager to add to the to-do-list. And... it's more important to me for that particular light to be controlled by macro and timer.... than be LED.

Other lights.... I've decided the other way... and have gone manual switch LED lighting. My kitchen I've converted to LED.... but only the over-cabinet and under-cabinet LED's are automated (both timer/macro and voice controlled).

[gkamieneski]

My home was built in 1996. Can I expect a neutral wire in my boxes? When I wired the WS467s I recall a white wire.

[Noam]

My home was built in 1996. Can I expect a neutral wire in my boxes? When I wired the WS467s I recall a white wire.

There really is no way to say - it has nothing to do with when it was built (since even the *current* code doesn't require a neutral - as far as I know).
If the switch is at the end of the circuit leg (beyond the fixture), then it probably doesn't have a neutral. If the live circuit passes through the box, with the fixture beyond it, there should be a  neutral in the box.
Your best bet would be to open the box and take a look.

[gkamieneski]

Yeah, I will have to pull out the switch and take a look. Without the neutral it makes no sense to order the WS469s. Since these are exterior wall switches at a door controlling coach lights framing the door, I am pretty sure there would be a neutral.

[HA Dave]

My home was built in 1996. Can I expect a neutral wire in my boxes? When I wired the WS467s I recall a white wire.

Decades ago... it was common for electricians  to run three 16 gauge lines to the over head. One Kitchen ceiling, one bathroom ceiling, and one for the rest of the overhead lights. Then they'd split the "live" wire at the light junction box and run one 16 gauge 2-wire (no ground) down to the switch. These three overhead runs would often take up nearly half of the 8 circuits in a 60 amp box. This is ancient history and shouldn't have anything to do with a home built in '96.

With that said/stated/posted..... never expect anything in a home to be done correctly (IMHO). I've actually found a recepticial wired with zipcord.

There really is no way to say - it has nothing to do with when it was built (since even the *current* code doesn't require a neutral - as far as I know).......... Your best bet would be to open the box and take a look.

You're correct. There is no actual "national code"... and practices (and codes) do vary... and sometimes are done incorrectly anyway. But... besides being a home owner and Home Automation enthusiast.... I was an old wire-twister, electrical wiring installer (many years ago). I would never recommend anyone... just jump in without a bit of forethought.

OK... sure... home wiring ain't rocket science. If it was too complex I'd never been able to do it. But there are a handful of safety protocols and procedures that are absolutely essential for safety's sake... IMHO. I'd suggest any interested person find a friend/family member/co-worker/neighbor who does know his/her way around home wiring... and ask them to give you a hand. And still... along with a helpful friend... maybe get a loan of a book from the library... and read up on home wiring... as well as doing some YouTube searching and viewing. It's nice to pick-up new skills.

Or even shop around for an electrician... and maybe have a list of desired improvements and or changes (you'd like done) for an estimate.

[Brian H]

I had a friend.
He said the lights in his porch kept going dim with any small load connected to an outlet.
Took it apart and someone used 300 OHM antenna Twin Lead to wire it.