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[HA Dave]

Who's doing what with Geofencing?

I have a Nest thermostat and it uses geofencing mixed with an internal motion sensor to determine if anyone is home... and sets heat/AC accordingly.

But that's it! Such a wonderfully intuitive insightful part of AI tech... and I am barely using it at all. WORSE... geofencing is hardly mentioned here. 

Now... my latest iphone update included an ability to better use the technology (interfaced with my phone to my home automation). Of course (being retired) I don't have a workplace to arrive at (or leave). Which would make a great excuse to not use geofencing. But I am not really looking for a 2nd class automation set-up.... with great excuses.

I need ideas and tips on how others with great setups are using their phones and geofencing in their setups.

[bkenobi]

If you are primarily concerned with automation, then geofencing your heating system sounds like a fun project.  But, if you are using a modern HVAC system including a heat pump, you might want to consider that setting your system to a single level *MAY* be more efficient than changing the temperature significantly (more than 3-4°F).  Heat pumps are great at maintaining a temperature and are very efficient at doing so (some are over 97% efficient these days).  But, when they have to recover more than ~2°F, they use a lot more energy than they would maintaining a single temperature.  Yes, there are a lot of variables, but something to consider.

[HA Dave]

If you are primarily concerned with automation, then geofencing your heating system sounds like a fun project..................
........ there are a lot of variables, but something to consider.

Not a project. The old Nest thermostats have been around YEARS... (with the 1st generation being released in 2011). I've been using the 3rd Gen model for about a year.... and the saving has more than paid for the cost of the unit (which my power supplier reimbursed most of anyway). But thanks for your warning/feedback.

What I am really looking for are other peoples uses of geofencing. It's a wonderful technology. Unfortunately... advanced tech is only as good as the imagination of it's users. And... apparently my own imagination is failing to provide me with the inspiration I need. These forums have always (historically) been brimming with creative uses for the available products.

There are MANY different type users of HA. They're all good. I particularly enjoy building my system (almost as much as using it). I am ALWAYS looking for ways to expand my Home Automation Setup.

[bkenobi]

I was only pointing out that with certain types of heating systems, it can be both bad for the efficiency and comfort of the home as well as create added maintenance to the system.  I'm not an environmental engineer nor HVAC installer, so I only have the information that installers gave me (usually personal systems and maintenance of customers).  There are certainly different regions of the country/world that may have different conditions which would lead to different results.

The example that I was provided was that keeping the heat at 60°F when away and then bumping it up to 72°F when you get home will lead to a large demand on the system.  Furniture, floors, etc will feel cold and provide for a less comfortable environment even if the air inside does reach the set point on schedule.  Since heat pump systems are really good at maintaining a temperature but not so good at recovering (often requiring the auxiliary heating system to be engaged (either straight electric coils or a gas burner, both of which are far inferior efficiency-wise), the savings over ~8 hours of lower temperature is lost in the recovery heating as well as adding to the maintenance on both the primary (HP) and auxiliary (coils, burner) systems.

I do personally drop the temperature while at work and at night but I don't see much difference unless it gets very cold (rarely in the Seattle area).  The difference in daily cost for electricity for weekdays versus weekends is essentially zero during spring and fall.  In summer the system is turned off completely.  In winter, we see a noticeable difference when the temperature drops below the HP protection temperature (25°F for our system) and to a lesser degree below the hybrid threshold (40°F for my system).  But, the temperature during the day doesn't run often because the lower set point and being the warmest part of the day.  The primary benefit we see is less cycles of the HP during fall/spring which should show reduced maintenance over the long run.

All of that said, geofencing is something that is a very interesting technology that would be great for automating alarm system activation, changing lighting modes, modifying aural annunciations to occupants, etc.  I would be hesitant to use occupancy as a means to automate the heating system which would be better run via a schedule and some form of weather link.  It would be even better if it could change based on predictive weather, but that's a whole other type of logic that would be difficult to implement.  I've looked into doing it and don't think the sensors, HVAC hardware, and logic would be easily configured to improve efficiency and/or occupant comfort.

[HA Dave]

I was only pointing out that with certain types of heating systems.......

Yeah.... I understand your intent was to be helpful. And I thank you for that. But Nest is well established... with a mature product, and MILLIONS sold and in use.

geofencing is something that is a very interesting technology that would be great for automating alarm system activation, changing lighting modes, modifying aural annunciations to occupants, etc. 

There isn't anything "would be" about geofencing. Like I mentioned in the OP.... even my iphone now has a built-in app to help users with their geofencing. And yes... it can be used for alarm system activation, and/or modifying annunciations to occupants. I don't know what "changing lighting modes" would even mean. The alarm systems have long been worked-out here. And whereas "annunciations" sounds interesting.... what would be announced... when... and to whom?

I would be hesitant to use occupancy as a means to automate the heating system .......It would be even better if it could change based on predictive weather, but that's a whole other type of logic that would be difficult to implement.

Actually.... AGAIN... Nest is a mature tech that works flawlessly (nothing to fear there).... and BTW it does use weather predictive tech as well. But I thought everyone already knew about these modern thermostats.

Is anyone actually using geofencing?

[bkenobi]

You have some interesting takes on my posts.  I compose a detailed message describing certain situations where a geofencing system would not be beneficial (and I stand by my statement) but you focus on the use of "would" or "could" as a way to cast doubt on something you feel is an established technology (whether it is or isn't).  Nest has been around for a long time which is why Google purchased them.  Just because a company has been around a long time doesn't mean they are necessarily the best approach to a system.  I mean, you could use a stick to start a fire and if Amazon sold it that doesn't mean it's the best option.

https://www.amazon.com/PSKOOK-Primitive-Survival-Practice-Generation/dp/B07547TJPD

I'm pretty sure that can be ordered by talking to Alexa, so maybe it is the best way afterall.   

[Tuicemen]

I've  thought about different ways to implement geofencing into my automation setup. Though never played with it at all. To me it is an expansion on occupancy  sensing or lack of. The radius area is just larger. I did play with occupancy  sensing with bluetooth and BlueWatch but geofencing seems the better way to go.

[bkenobi]

HG has some occupancy sensing implemented through WiFi I think (may be Bluetooth).  I never played with it, but other HG users commented that they were able to get it working.  Seems like a good approach though if you had a GPS based fencing it would also be another way should you have a way to link it to your HA system when out of WiFi range.  If your automations are all Alexa based, then it would be taken care of already.

[HA Dave]

.....I did play with occupancy  sensing with bluetooth and BlueWatch

You did excellent work with those programs. You were ahead of the phone/app/device curve.

but geofencing seems the better way to go.

Geofencing works. Who knows how many thousands of tech savvy hours and millions of dollars have been poured into today's geofencing. I just wish I could think of more ways to better exploit this tech.

[HA Dave]

........ if you had a GPS based fencing it would also be another way should you have a way to link it to your HA system when out of WiFi range.  If your automations are all Alexa based, then it would be taken care of already.

Very little of my setup is "Alexa based" (I think 2 devices... one of which is a electric candle I converted to plug-in). Alexa serves as integrator of my varied collection of different flavors of devices. Even my iphone now has a built-in app to help the device communicate with each other.

So yes.... everything is pretty much "taken care of already". The only problem is figuring out what to do... not so much how to do it.

[HA Dave]

You have some interesting takes on my posts.  I compose a detailed message.......  but you focus on the use of "would" or "could"

My God you're sensitive.

Your posts may have had enormous theoretical wisdom. I'll gladly give you that. But I am not working in theory. I am using accepted off-the-shelf technology. They work, I like them, MILLIONS of other users like the products. You may wish till wait till several years after you die... before you try today's tech. But I prefer to enjoy Home Automation... now.

[Tuicemen]

.....I did play with occupancy  sensing with bluetooth and BlueWatch

You did excellent work with those programs. You were ahead of the phone/app/device curve.

Thanks Dave, that all came about from suggestions and ideas from you and others put forth on this forum.
The problem for me with geofencing is not a factor of it working but more I need to carry my phone everywhere. 90% of the time I never take my cell phone or any electronic device with me. And even if I did I have no data plan so I'd be limited to wi-fi which would have limits though better then bluetooth.
 Basicaly anything users had/have setup with occupancy sensing could be reconfigured to geofencing. With that in mind it may be worth a new read of the old occupancy sensing posts. Some of the suggestions put forth back then, that weren't possible then, now are.

[bkenobi]

My posts are to the forum community most of the time.  In this case I was stating that your specific setup might work for you but if others want to replicate they should consider the specifics of their own heating system.

Of course in general, ones goals are what determine whether HA is appropriate.  Some people think HA can be used to increase efficiency/save money on heating/lighting/etc costs.  That may be true given the right setup.  Others just want a gee wiz factor to impress others of how clever they are.  Well, that works too but the two probably won't mesh in all/many situations.  In the case of heating systems, it might work well for people with baseboard heaters or ductless heat pumps since those are very localized and a geofencing setup in which the system heats the room with occupants is very possible and would certainly increase comfort as well as reducing costs.  Yes, Nest is purported to have this capability should the home owner invest in enough units to make sufficient zones.

However, my post was pointing out that HVAC systems that are already high efficiency will not likely benefit from such a setup and could actually cause reduced efficiency and added maintenance.  If pointing out potential pitfalls that could cost unknowing HA connoisseurs thousands of dollars of real money is sensitive, well, ok.  I don't consider this theory since it is known in industry, just helpful advice.  I can find my tin foil hat before I speak about "sensitive theoretical" diatribe in the future.  It won't hurt my feelings at all.

[HA Dave]

My posts are to the forum community most of the time.  In this case I was stating that your specific setup might work for you but if others want to replicate they should consider the specifics of their own heating system.

..........However, my post was pointing out that HVAC systems that are already high efficiency will not likely benefit from such a setup and could actually cause reduced efficiency and added maintenance. ......

Luckily.... the good people at Nest and/or google had already considered such possibilities and allowed for such things in their setup. My cheap-to-use high efficiency heating system is now saving even more bucks. And the AC is (of course) saving money too. Your guesstimate of how these units are constructed may be needlessly worrisome.

BUT.... let us NOT forget. This thread is about Geofencing!

Unless your intention is to disrupt any technology you don't use or understand lets get back to the subject at hand. Are any of.... what is left of this once vibrant and creative membership..... using geofencing? And do they/you have any ideas for routine/macro/programs/robots.... or whatever name is being used by whatever app. Particularly (I'd guess) is any iphone users using that new automation app that was included in the new update?

[HA Dave]

....The problem for me with geofencing is not a factor of it working but more I need to carry my phone everywhere. 90% of the time I never take my cell phone or any electronic device with me....

I understand..... and respect that. Lot's of people are NOT phone/device centric. I am a bit of a phone convert myself. But now (no joke) seriously considering complete-TOTAL conversion when I upgrade to the latest iphone. I think I can get a phone to replace my laptop (which replaced the desktop). Although.... I may... if need be... buy an ipad.

I've become very attached to my iphone and it's MANY apps. It tracks and preserves my diet, my exercise, and appointments. It connects me with everything and everyone important to me (and me to them). I know.... this by-the-month rental-technology is a bit of a negative as far as lifestyle "theory" is concerned. But the technology and it's advantages are far too beneficial and meaningful to me.... for me... to pass-up.