Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BAS-Sr]

I have had the X10 technology in my home for almost 20 years now, in general LOVE it, but can be frustrating at times! We have around 15 units installed around the house permanently and use about 25 LM465's during the Christmas season.

Have the interface (ActiveHome Pro with the CM11) on my desktop with basically 2 programs I run daily, one for the certain lights and another for other lights to turn them on/off at different times. The one I am seeing an issue here is turning on lights at dusk.

We have a Vizio M650VSE LED TV for about 7 years now, about 5 or 6 years ago I noticed that the brightness would change (increase or decrease) while watching shows. I thought it had something to do with the power supply so I just figured that at some point I was going to have to replace the power supply or get a new TV.

Recently while I was watching TV I noticed that the change in the TV brightness was at the same time the X10 lights are going on at dusk. The TV has is connected to the house power through a power strip that has a voltage regulator to keep spikes from burning out all the devices that it feeds power to (other devices besides the TV are the cable box, DVR, etc...).

For the life of me I cannot figure out why the TV is responding to the X10 signals?

Any ideas as to why this is happening? Or suggestions on how to isolate the TV from the X10 signals?

[Noam]

That is quite an odd situation.
Is the brightness *setting* actually changing (like if you go into the menu, does the stated brightness level change with those X10 signals), or is it just the actual brightness of the screen that's changing (while the setting remains the same)?

If the setting is changing, then the TV must somehow be able to receive control signals over the powerline (which is still odd to me). If it's just the actual brightness level that's changing, my guess is noise on ther powerline (and X10 signals look like noise to other devices) that is messing with the electronics in the TV. Does the TV have some sort of ambient light sensor that adjusts brightness? Could it be receiving reflected light from some of those lights that are coming on at dusk, and trying to adjust itself accordingly?

[Brian H]

I downloaded the manual for your VIZIO.

It has an Ambient Light Sensor. Like mine does.

If the lights being controlled by X10 are shining on the sensor. It maybe adjusting the brightness.

In the Menu selection. Page 31 of the users manual shows the Ambient Light Sensor. It can be set to Off,Low,Medium or High.
You maybe able to temporarily set it off and see if it makes a difference.

[BAS-Sr]

That is quite an odd situation.
Is the brightness *setting* actually changing (like if you go into the menu, does the stated brightness level change with those X10 signals), or is it just the actual brightness of the screen that's changing (while the setting remains the same)?

If the setting is changing, then the TV must somehow be able to receive control signals over the powerline (which is still odd to me). If it's just the actual brightness level that's changing, my guess is noise on ther powerline (and X10 signals look like noise to other devices) that is messing with the electronics in the TV. Does the TV have some sort of ambient light sensor that adjusts brightness? Could it be receiving reflected light from some of those lights that are coming on at dusk, and trying to adjust itself accordingly?

Not sure?

I will have to check tonight when it does it!

Will post a reply!

[BAS-Sr]

I downloaded the manual for your VIZIO.

It has an Ambient Light Sensor. Like mine does.

If the lights being controlled by X10 are shining on the sensor. It maybe adjusting the brightness.

In the Menu selection. Page 31 of the users manual shows the Ambient Light Sensor. It can be set to Off,Low,Medium or High.
You maybe able to temporarily set it off and see if it makes a difference.

I do not think that is what is happening. The screen is actually getting brighter when the lights go on at dusk.

These lights in the room are very dim, probably less than 10 watts (wife has all her little "MOOD" lighting around the house).

Again, when it does it tonight, I will try to watch the screen more closely but I don't think it is ambient changes.

[Brian H]

Will be waiting for you results.

[dave w]

Next question is: does the TV change brightness when any lights outside the room are turned on. (or off). I am wondering about the Visio switching power supply aging and the X10 signal on the power line is messing with the TV power supply regulation.

If it only happens when the lights in same room as TV turns ON or OFF (especially if screen gets brighter when lights come on and dimmer when lights go off) I think Brian H is on track with his thoughts about the ambient light sensing. $0.02

[BAS-Sr]

Next question is: does the TV change brightness when any lights outside the room are turned on. (or off). I am wondering about the Visio switching power supply aging and the X10 signal on the power line is messing with the TV power supply regulation.

If it only happens when the lights in same room as TV turns ON or OFF (especially if screen gets brighter when lights come on and dimmer when lights go off) I think Brian H is on track with his thoughts about the ambient light sensing. $0.02

Well the code I see it happening with is A12, which controls about 10 LM465's around the house. I have another code (A15) which has a slight delay on it, so that would not being in question here since that goes on at Dusk but delayed for 10 minutes (it is my flagpole light to illuminate my flag at night).

Sorry but I did not see how it worked last night, wife had me doing something else so by the time we sat down to watch TV, it had already turned the lights on.....maybe tonight will be different? :-)

[brobin]

1. You can test any time by turning A12 on and off rather than waiting for the daily cycle. 
2. Did you try turning off the Ambient Light Sensor in the TV settings to at least eliminate that possibility?
3. Since you're turning on 10 modules/loads with A12 perhaps the inrush current for all those bulbs is enough to momentarily dim the TV which then brightens a split second later when the draw returns to normal.  If that were the case I'd expect it to happen whenever any large load, like an A/C unit, came on.
$0.06

If the A12 signal is messing with the power supply I'd suspect that any X10 signal would do the same.  In 2002 I installed a KSU-less phone system that had programmable intercom extension numbers. The trouble was that X10 signals would wipe out the programming!  The manufacturer developed a fix and sent me new chips to upgrade the phones.  Rather than figure out how to filter the PLC signals they added a 'feature' to lock the extensions numbers.  To eliminate wall warts at each phone they were powered by a common 12 volt power supply - not even plugged directly into the powerline.

[BAS-Sr]

1. You can test any time by turning A12 on and off rather than waiting for the daily cycle. 
2. Did you try turning off the Ambient Light Sensor in the TV settings to at least eliminate that possibility?
3. Since you're turning on 10 modules/loads with A12 perhaps the inrush current for all those bulbs is enough to momentarily dim the TV which then brightens a split second later when the draw returns to normal.  If that were the case I'd expect it to happen whenever any large load, like an A/C unit, came on.
$0.06

If the A12 signal is messing with the power supply I'd suspect that any X10 signal would do the same.  In 2002 I installed a KSU-less phone system that had programmable intercom extension numbers. The trouble was that X10 signals would wipe out the programming!  The manufacturer developed a fix and sent me new chips to upgrade the phones.  Rather than figure out how to filter the PLC signals they added a 'feature' to lock the extensions numbers.  To eliminate wall warts at each phone they were powered by a common 12 volt power supply - not even plugged directly into the powerline.

Sorry for the delayed response!

I checked the Ambient setting, it is on and set at medium. Tried changing it to Off, brightened the TV then within a few seconds dimmed, tried each of the settings for On and it did the same thing. Quite frankly not sure what it is supposed to be doing?

The light in the room where we sit and watch TV is close to the TV (wife has a small 10w light on a shelf next to the TV) so when that light goes on via the control, that is when the TV brightens at the same time.

I would doubt the other modules around the house when they go on would have an effect on the TV....

Still confused what the correlation is between the X10 command and the TV? 

[brobin]

Unplug the lamp from the A12 module near the TV and test again. If the same thing happens then it's probably a current issue as described earlier. If it only happens as a result of the light actually coming on then I'd say its probably the ambient light feature and maybe relocating the lamp or placing tape over the TV's light sensor would help. If it's a current issue I'd set some of the modules to a separate Unit code and turn those on a minute later. Or try unplugging them one at a time to see which load is causing the problem. Do other X10 House/Unit codes cause the problem?

[BAS-Sr]

Unplug the lamp from the A12 module near the TV and test again. If the same thing happens then it's probably a current issue as described earlier. If it only happens as a result of the light actually coming on then I'd say its probably the ambient light feature and maybe relocating the lamp or placing tape over the TV's light sensor would help. If it's a current issue I'd set some of the modules to a separate Unit code and turn those on a minute later. Or try unplugging them one at a time to see which load is causing the problem. Do other X10 House/Unit codes cause the problem?

Thanks for the suggestions, but doing anything with my wife's lighting would take somewhere between and Act of Congress and an Act of GOD! :-)

I noticed last night NO change in the picture brightness when the A12 code activated the light, so I am assuming that by turning off the Ambient Light feature in the TV that was the culprit. Seems weird that would be the issue, but hey for some things in life I stopped pondering them and just accept that is the way they are!

[brobin]

Actually that's not weird at all but makes the most sense. The ambient light sensor responds to changes in the room lighting by adjusting the screen brightness, so it's working as designed. Personally, I always turn that feature off. Glad you've got it solved!

[Noam]

I'm glad you were able to figure it out. Odd (not always repeatable) problems can be really frustrating to try and fix - especially when you can't even figure out a logical cause. Long-time readers here might remember that I had a problem a number of years ago where some of my light switches wouldn't work at night (they were fine by the next morning). That turned out to be a failing (noisy) CFL light bulb *across the street* that was coming on at dusk. I bought my neighbor a pair of new bulbs, and that solved the problem. Sometimes the cause might not be one you're thinking of (or even in your house).

Depending on where the sensor is, it may have been picking up reflected light from that lamp - and triggering the brightness adjustment. It's entirely possible that some light was bouncing off the wall (or floor, or a shelf, etc) to that sensor - but not in a way that was noticeable to you when you were sitting on the couch.

[JeffVolp]

Odd (not always repeatable) problems can be really frustrating to try and fix - especially when you can't even figure out a logical cause.

One that had me stumped for awhile was caused by a degrading electrolytic capacitor in my Ocelot controller.  When there is a power interruption the initialization sequence sets everything to either a daytime or evening condition, depending on the time of day.  The failing capacitor was causing the initialization program to run at increasing frequency.  At transition times or during the night lights were not at the expected state.  The XTBM-Pro log file showed sequences of commands at random times of the day.  That didn't make sense until I realized they were initialization sequences.  A new electrolytic has it back working as it should.

Jeff