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[madbrain]

My house has a number of devices that use powerline for communication. Not just X10, but also 40 Enphase solar micro-inverters. There are a few TP-Link powerline ethernet AV1200 adapters to hookup devices that don't support Wifi, also, such as my first generation Enphase Envoy, a Rainforest Eagle, a Canon Pro100 that prints too slowly over Wifi, and many Chromecasts audio that I don't want to use Wifi for and pollute the radio waves.
Not to speak of the 230+ LEDs that are hardwired.

Anyway, I have frequent powerline communication errors on my solar micro-inverters. Someone suggested to use ferrite clip-on RFI EMI nose suppressors such as these :
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dreamtop-10X-Clip-on-Ferrite-Ring-Core-RFI-EMI-Noise-Suppressor-Cable-Clip-11mm-Inner-Diameter-Black/128871631?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101003242&adid=22222222222152792148&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=s&wl2=c&wl3=75316616592750&wl4=pla-4578916220388346&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&wl10=Walmart&wl11=Online&wl12=128871631_10001022612&wl14=walmart%20ferrite%20noise&veh=sem&msclkid=a05a8f3d14301b04320beea29f54564c&gclid=a05a8f3d14301b04320beea29f54564c&gclsrc=3p.ds

Has anyone used this stuff ? How good is it ? Seems a lot safer than using, say, XPPF plug-in filters that are 5amp only. Or the AF120 15amps. Tons cheaper, also. Those are big, unsightly, and sometimes cause ground issues when loose, which can happen with cats walking around. I'd love to get rid of as many of them as I can. Are these ferrite thingies any good ?

I probably have at least over 100 plugged-in devices in the house. If I also count USB, RCA, speaker, Firewire and various other cables, maybe as many as 1000 cables in the house. Of course, all the cables are of widely varying diameters.

Before I invest in any ferrite filters, I wanted to know people's opinions. Are they effective and help with PLC signals such as X10 ? Are they worth the money ? Is there a particular brand that comes recommended ? Where would I get things that cover heavy gauge wire, like something for an appliance using up to a full 15amp, like countertop ovens, microwaves, etc. Even my PCs with 1200 PSU used heavy gauge cables. So do my many AVRs. Or the many high-wattage plug-in surge protectors that have heavy gauge cables, too.

[brobin]

I don't know anything about the Enphase Micro Inverters but for X10 the XPPF and AF120 filters are specifically designed to filter 120 kHz signals that interfere with X10 signals.  The clip-on filters you're talking about will not be effective in doing that.

[madbrain]

I don't know anything about the Enphase Micro Inverters but for X10 the XPPF and AF120 filters are specifically designed to filter 120 kHz signals that interfere with X10 signals.  The clip-on filters you're talking about will not be effective in doing that.

I understand the clip-on filters won't filter specific frequencies used by X10, but would they be of any use for anything at all ?

The Enphase micro-inverters I have use Powerline communication, but i'm not sure of the exact protocol. My guess is that it's some sort of Homeplug AV, but I really don't know for sure. There is no documented way for customers to pair with the micro-inverters over PLC, and access them directly. Only the Enphase Envoy gateway pairs with them over PLC.

The log from the Envoy web interface shows that a few micro-inverters go offline and fail to report their production at times. Sometimes for periods of up to 5 hours. Sometimes just a couple minutes. It seems to be always the same ones. They were both replaced on wednesday. The replacements are both experiencing communication issues as well. At this point, I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the wiring on my roof ...

One solar installer in an Enphase recommended using the ferrite noise suppressor to help with noise issues with the micro-inverters. I figured it was worth asking about X10 here too.

[madbrain]

I understand the clip-on filters won't filter specific frequencies used by X10, but would they be of any use for anything at all ?

For what it's worth, using a TP-Link AV1200 powerline modem, and plugging anything X10 into it, blocks all X10 signals to/from. I think there is some overlap in the frequencies used by X10 and Powerline ethernet.
Now that 15amp X10/Insteon filters are no longer being manufactured in large volumes, using those powerline modes just as plug-in filters might be a decent alternative.
However, the clip-on on filters are orders of magnitude cheaper, if they work. I haven't tried them yet.

[bkenobi]

If you need a plugin filter, I'd recommend the Smarthome 5A or 10A units.  They are often available on ebay for fairly cheap.  FWIW, the 5A and 10A are internally identical except for a fuse.  Some of the ones I bought were "broken" which just required replacing the soldered in fuse for $0.50USD and 5 minutes of my time.  I haven't tried other brands, but these have worked great for me.

[dhouston]

I think there is some overlap in the frequencies used by X10 and Powerline ethernet.

It has been many years since I researched this but as best I remember there is no overlap. The Powerline ethernet frequencies were considerably higher.

[JeffVolp]

I understand the clip-on filters won't filter specific frequencies used by X10, but would they be of any use for anything at all ?

Most clamp on ferrite filters are intended for the megahertz frequency range, and are not effective at the X10 frequency.  There are clamp-on inductors specifically intended for lower frequencies, but even those lose much of their filtering ability at 100KHz.

Some time ago I investigated making a plug-in filter using the low-frequency ferrite material.  It took multiple loops through the ferrite core to achieve performance similar to the XTB-F10/F15.  But the core saturates as current increases.  So there is a tradeoff between effective filtering versus how much current the filter can handle.  Because of that I abandoned the project.

Jeff

[madbrain]

If you need a plugin filter, I'd recommend the Smarthome 5A or 10A units.  They are often available on ebay for fairly cheap.  FWIW, the 5A and 10A are internally identical except for a fuse.  Some of the ones I bought were "broken" which just required replacing the soldered in fuse for $0.50USD and 5 minutes of my time.  I haven't tried other brands, but these have worked great for me.

I have several locations with a lot of devices plugged in, including some higher powered ones like power audio amps. I really need 15 amps plug-in filters for them.

[brobin]

You'll be very lucky to find a 15 amp plug in filter!  Perhaps you could split the loads between 2 power strips and put a 10 amp filter on each of them.

[madbrain]

You'll be very lucky to find a 15 amp plug in filter!  Perhaps you could split the loads between 2 power strips and put a 10 amp filter on each of them.

We have had some ground loop audio issues that could only be resolved by putting everything on the same power strip. There is a 24-outlet powerstrip in the master bedroom for that reason. And I think it's full ... Definitely don't want a 10amp filter on that.

My husband has some really powerful amps in the master bedroom that could in theory exceed 10amps. And he has several of them, so even if one doesn't, multiple of them will. He is constantly plugging and unplugging things around. He won't know to keep any one circuit within 10 amp limit. I really need the 15 amp filters.

I have 5 ACT AF120 15 amp filters in the house, but I'm afraid it's just not enough. I could use the 10amp models in my home theater and office by splitting loads. Still doesn't feel right to put a 1500W UPS into a 10amp filter, and I have 4 of them in the house also.

To be honest, it's a miracle X10 works at all anywhere in the house. I just had a number of outlets throughout the house replaced with surge protector outlets (above-mentioned 24 outlet power strip is just a power tap). My $3K projector on the ceiling outlet was not surge protected also. Now my powerline ethernet signal has significantly weakened. A remote printer in my guest bedroom can't connect via Ethernet anymore. Sigh.

TLDR, I really need a few more 15 amp filters.

[brobin]

Use some XPF20 filters. Put one in a 6x6x4 PVC junction box and drill a 3/8" hole in two sides of the box. Cut the ends off a heavy duty extension cord and run them into the holes.  Wire the plug end to the Black & White wires and the and outlet end to the Red & White wires of the filter and you're in business. Amazon has the XPF 20 for $30 delivered.  Home Depot has the 6x6x4 boxes.

 

[madbrain]

Use some XPF20 filters. Put one in a 6x6x4 PVC junction box and drill a 3/8" hole in two sides of the box. Cut the ends off a heavy duty extension cord and run them into the holes.  Wire the plug end to the Black & White wires and the and outlet end to the Red & White wires of the filter and you're in business. Amazon has the XPF 20 for $30 delivered.  Home Depot has the 6x6x4 boxes.

I'm not handy and I can't do this myself. The labor rate to install the box, wire it, drywall, paint, texture, would be very high. I still have some leftover electrical work in a few places that hasn't been patched up due to cost. I'm not looking to have more holes in my walls. I need plug-in filters.

[brobin]

Sorry I wasn't more clear - this IS a plug-in filter.  Since there are no more 15 amp filters being made or even coming up on ebay, this is a way to "roll your own" even if you're not handy.  The box I'm talking about wouldn't go in a wall or require an electrician or drywall, etc.  It would just be a box that would plug into an outlet.  The power strip would plug into the outlet coming from the box and the cord from the box plugs into the wall outlet.  This is something that requires no electrical know-how and very little effort. If you're interested in giving it a go I'll be happy to walk you through how to do it.  It'll take no more than 15 minutes to make and require nothing more than an inexpensive wire stripper, a drill to make the holes in the box and some twist-on wire nuts. 

[bkenobi]

I have several locations with a lot of devices plugged in, including some higher powered ones like power audio amps. I really need 15 amps plug-in filters for them.

I decided similarly for my office as I was expecting to have 2-3 systems running at a time potentially.  I didn't expect to exceed 10A, but I wanted to make sure it wouldn't be an issue.  I was not able to locate a 15A filter of any kind, so I decided my best option was to build something.  I ended up using a 20A XPF X10 filter which is designed to be wired in.  I used a 2-gang box and put 2 duplex receptacles with a long extension cord to create my own device.  2 outlets are filtered, the other 2 are not in case I needed it.  My desk is an "L" shape and has a solid back which blocks the outlets so I used this as both an extension cord, a filter, and a power strip.  I like it overall but if I were to do it again I'd use a more robust box.  The one I found at the time was plastic and flexes a little so it's not usable by mechanics for sure!

[JeffVolp]

I was not able to locate a 15A filter of any kind, so I decided my best option was to build something.

The schematic for the XTB-F10 and XTB-F15 is on-line if you want to roll your own:

http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb-f10_schematic_v10.pdf

All other documentation is online too:  https://jvde.us/documentation/

Jeff