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Author Topic: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors  (Read 1604 times)

madbrain

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2022, 02:01:55 AM »

Your X10 devices all use ~3W each.

Where did you get that 3W figure ? My P4460 kill-a-watt is unable to measure any load on a plug-in module (X10 pro, PAM02). Shows 0.0amp, 0.0W. Hard to believe it's off by as much as 3W.
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dhouston

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2022, 06:21:48 AM »

Your X10 devices all use ~3W each.
Where did you get that 3W figure ? My P4460 kill-a-watt is unable to measure any load on a plug-in module (X10 pro, PAM02). Shows 0.0amp, 0.0W. Hard to believe it's off by as much as 3W.
I measured several X10 devices when idle several years ago. The results are at the bottom of this web page...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/x10-sig.html
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brobin

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2022, 06:30:40 AM »

Your X10 devices all use ~3W each.

Where did you get that 3W figure ? My P4460 kill-a-watt is unable to measure any load on a plug-in module (X10 pro, PAM02). Shows 0.0amp, 0.0W. Hard to believe it's off by as much as 3W.

In a home with over 100 plugged in devices, over 1000 cables in place, multiple PC's, several high power amps and 230+ LED's you apparently live in a generously sized home with substantial power consumption.  It seems that worrying about the power consumption of X10 modules is chasing pennies that would have negligible impact on the total.  Why would you even be concerned about it?
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madbrain

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2022, 03:52:47 PM »

In a home with over 100 plugged in devices, over 1000 cables in place, multiple PC's, several high power amps and 230+ LED's you apparently live in a generously sized home with substantial power consumption.  It seems that worrying about the power consumption of X10 modules is chasing pennies that would have negligible impact on the total.  Why would you even be concerned about it?

Yes, I do live in a mansion. I'm also not working at this moment, unfortunately, so I'm watching expenses. The PG&E electricity rates are rising very substantially, especially for solar PV users such as myself. One reason I want to use X10 modules is to turn off as many things as possible when not in use, ie. save power, without having to physically go to each device or power strip to turn them off. That includes things that use a lot of power, including audio amps, but also things that use little, like the porch light. If the combination of X10 modules and filters ends up adding a lot to base load, then it may be counterproductive to my goals.
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madbrain

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2022, 04:27:19 PM »

I measured several X10 devices when idle several years ago. The results are at the bottom of this web page...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/x10-sig.html

Thank you very much ! Looks like most of the devices use 1W or less. Only a dimmer switch you mentioned used 2.5W in the 0% position. I don't use any X10 dimmers, or any other kind of dimmers.
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madbrain

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2022, 04:23:00 PM »

I have found another source of X10 interference - one of my Juicebox Pro 40 EV chargers.
My Chevy Bolt is on a demand-based utility program with PG&E. This means the utility decides the best time to charge my car at night, when the grid load is lowest. The utility allow can decide how many watts/amps to allocate to charging depending on grid load.. I get compensated a little bit for that privilege (comes to about $80/year).
In practice, the charging usually starts around 2am, and typically the maximum amps that the car allows are used (32 amps).

I have noticed that while the car is charging, PLC signals from the CM11A located in my home office don't reach any distant X10 wall switches or modules located other rooms. As soon as I use the app on my phone or web interface to forcibly stop the EV charging manually, the X10 signals do reach the X10 modules/switches.

The Juicebox is charging at 32 amps / 240V. It's using a plug-in NEMA 14-50 (4 prong dryer plug).
I have two of those as I have two EVs. The other EV is a Chevy Volt which charges at 15 amps / 240V.
Either charger gets used with either car. Each Juicebox is on its own 40amp breaker as 25% upsizing is required for continuous loads. The breakers are off the main 200amp panel, not a subpanel.

Is there any X10 filter that can handle 240 amps / 32 amps continuous current ? Or am I SOL in this case ?
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brobin

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2022, 05:22:30 PM »

Do you have an XTB-IIR installed?  That would likely improve performance particularly in a mansion.
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madbrain

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2022, 05:41:40 PM »

Do you have an XTB-IIR installed?  That would likely improve performance particularly in a mansion.

No. I do have a Smarthome 4826A 4-prongs phase coupler, though. It is plugged in to a dryer plug in my laundry room upstairs in the back of the house. Probably as far away as possible from where my Pi4/CM11A are located, in my home office downstairs in the front of the house. Nevertheless, I just checked that it is still working. Walked to the laundry room, used HomeGenie to turn a few modules on/off, and saw the lights on it blink. EV wasn't charging at the time, though.
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Brian H

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2022, 06:39:05 PM »

I have the three pin 4826B coupler repeater.
Just a thought. May not be any issue for you.
On mine I found the Transmit and Receive LED for each phase flashed properly.
A test with my XTBM X10 meter and XTB-IIR off. One phase was not sending anything even though the LED's for that phase flashed like normally.
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brobin

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2022, 07:14:04 PM »

Do you have an XTB-IIR installed?  That would likely improve performance particularly in a mansion.

No. I do have a Smarthome 4826A 4-prongs phase coupler, though. It is plugged in to a dryer plug in my laundry room upstairs in the back of the house. Probably as far away as possible from where my Pi4/CM11A are located, in my home office downstairs in the front of the house. Nevertheless, I just checked that it is still working. Walked to the laundry room, used HomeGenie to turn a few modules on/off, and saw the lights on it blink. EV wasn't charging at the time, though.

For a home of the size you've mentioned, an XTB-IIR is almost mandatory.  Based on your described skill set, you'd want an electrician to install at an electrical panel.  The expense for the product and installation will be well worth it as it is far superior to any other X10 repeater/amplifier ever made - and I know because over the years I've tried them all!  They are no longer being produced but Jeff reports that he still has a limited number left in stock.
 https://jvde.us/xtb-iir/
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bkenobi

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Re: Ferrite EMI noise suppressors
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2022, 10:56:03 PM »

Vampire power...that's it!  Thanks for the reminder.

As for the power usage, I was quoting what was posted here a few times years ago.  I don't have a specific link and it doesn't matter since dhouston's data is clearly more accurate as it covers specific modules.  I suspect the post quoting 3W was an estimated high value since it is 2-3x what dhouston measured.  I don't have a way to measure such small loads in my overall usage.
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