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Author Topic: Insteon as we know it is gone  (Read 7891 times)

Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #105 on: June 29, 2022, 08:36:27 PM »

Looks correct. When you push the set button only an Insteon message is sent.
If it has a manually added X10 address in it. A PLM can use the 02 63 send X10 command and 02 52 X10 received. Commands from the PLM Developers Guide I believe you have.

I did a test with a 2466D Togglelinc Dimmer and can control it with a 2412S serial port PLM and Busyrats PLM test program.

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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #106 on: June 29, 2022, 10:51:25 PM »

If it has a manually added X10 address in it. A PLM can use the 02 63 send X10 command and 02 52 X10 received. Commands from the PLM Developers Guide I believe you have.

Yes, once manually set to the X10 compatibility mode, then define it as an X10 module so it responds to the standard X10 commands.  But there does not appear to be any way to have the G2 issue a pre-set dim command.

Anyway, the XTB-XM is available now:  https://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_ordering.htm#xtb-xm

Jeff
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #107 on: June 30, 2022, 06:15:03 AM »

Since I don't have a P2 enabled module and 2412U PLM to check.

The Preset Dim and Extended Code commands are listed in the Modem Developers guide. The P2 module may not implement them.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #108 on: June 30, 2022, 09:44:26 AM »

The P2 module may not implement them.

Kind of like the WM100 only supporting the subset of commands issued by a PalmPad.

Jeff
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x10wizard

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #109 on: June 30, 2022, 10:41:18 AM »

Regarding Jeff’s XTB-XM, if the Harmony cannot send out X10 pre-set dim commands, a workaround would be to use X10 scenes.  The Insteon 2477D Dimmer Switch, the Insteon 2334-222 and 2334-232 Keypad Dimmers, and several other Insteon dimmers, are capable of storing X10 scene addresses in addition to their primary X10 address.

For example, suppose a 2477D was set up with the X10 primary address A1 at 100%, and X10 scene address B1 at 50%.  If the Harmony were to send out a X10 B1 ON command, that would be equivalent to sending out a X10 A1 50% pre-set dim command.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #110 on: June 30, 2022, 11:11:47 AM »

That works for Insteon dimmers.  But the reason I included the ability to expand a pre-set dim command to an extended command was to use the Harmony with our Leviton dimmer switches.  They use extended commands to ramp the brightness to a specified level with 64-step resolution.  Since a pre-set dim has 32-step resolution, there is just a minor loss of resolution converting the pre-set dim to an extended command with still 32 steps of resolution.

As brobin suggested earlier, I can set up macros in the Ocelot to convert a "trigger" from the Harmony to an extended dim command.  But that relegates the Harmony to just an Alexa interface if the Ocelot is still the main controller.

Of course, with what has happened with Insteon, maybe Smartenit would consider enhancing the G2 capability to directly support pre-set dim commands?

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 11:18:46 AM by JeffVolp »
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #111 on: July 01, 2022, 10:21:11 AM »

Regarding Jeff’s XTB-XM, if the Harmony cannot send out X10 pre-set dim commands, a workaround would be to use X10 scenes.  The Insteon 2477D Dimmer Switch, the Insteon 2334-222 and 2334-232 Keypad Dimmers, and several other Insteon dimmers, are capable of storing X10 scene addresses in addition to their primary X10 address.

For example, suppose a 2477D was set up with the X10 primary address A1 at 100%, and X10 scene address B1 at 50%.  If the Harmony were to send out a X10 B1 ON command, that would be equivalent to sending out a X10 A1 50% pre-set dim command.

I thought the X10 Scenes feature was removed in the later revisions to add other features.
Do the latest revisions still accept an X10 Scenes address in them?
What are you using to send the need address strings to start and end the processes?
I had a Smarthome 2430 console to send the House Code sequences.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 10:50:05 AM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #112 on: July 01, 2022, 10:46:03 AM »

Jeff the Insteon module use to have a X10 primary address and an X10 scene address feature.
Using a sequence of House Code messages you cold add a second X10 address to them.
At different settings from the primary address.
With the scene address in many modules.
A command to the primary address only controlled the module with that address.
Sending an X10 scene address command would set all the modules together. To what they where set to in the scene address setup.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #113 on: July 01, 2022, 11:55:02 AM »

Jeff the Insteon module use to have a X10 primary address and an X10 scene address feature.

I understand Insteon modules can respond to a specified dim level.  But again my work was intended to allow the Harmony to support Leviton and newer X10 modules that use extended commands.

I did run into a hiccup converting another XTB-232 to the XTB-XM.  Converting the prototype worked fine, but the newer unit had trouble receiving commands.  Baud rate was correct.  It turned out to be the opto-isolators were too slow.  The prototype and early XTB-232s used NEC optio-isolators.  They discontinued that part and the alternate available at Mouser (same part number) is significantly slower.  A different part selected for its speed is on the way.  So the XTB-XM should be available in about a week:  https://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_ordering.htm#xtb-xm

Jeff
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x10wizard

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #114 on: July 02, 2022, 03:52:07 AM »

I purchased a few Insteon 2334-222 Keypad Dimmers V8.0 in May 2018 to keep as spares, and when I bench tested them, they accepted both X10 primary and X10 scene addresses.  Same goes for Insteon 2477D Dimmer Switches V8.2 purchased in May 2018.  So my guess is that even later versions of these still retain X10 scene capability.

Instructions for X10 scene address programming are here:
https://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/insteon-x10-programming

I just use a maxi-controller to send the string of commands, it’s a lot of tweaking the house-code setting back and forth with a jeweler’s screwdriver, but it works.
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #115 on: July 02, 2022, 06:16:03 AM »

Good to know and thank you for the information.
Seems typical. Remove all X10 information and not officially support it but still do.

Also was a welcomes sight to see  that the X10 write up is again on line. When they originally folded all that stuff was gone.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 06:20:45 AM by Brian H »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #116 on: July 07, 2022, 02:22:18 PM »

The new opto-isolators are even a bit faster than the NEC version.  So this is good to go:

    https://jvde.us/xtb-xm/

If someone wants to mod an existing XTB-232 themselves, the mod requires the firmware swap and changing 2 resistors and 2 opto-isolators to handle the 19.2K baud rate.  I could make up a kit for that.

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2022, 03:53:22 PM »

It appears Insteon is back in biz under new ownership. I got an email from them yesterday asking me to let them know if I'd like to be on their mailing list and then a blog post saying the servers are back up and they will soon be producing products.  See insteon.com for info.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #118 on: July 15, 2022, 11:08:52 AM »

It appears Insteon is back in biz under new ownership. I got an email from them yesterday asking me to let them know if I'd like to be on their mailing list and then a blog post saying the servers are back up and they will soon be producing products.  See insteon.com for info.

So the XTB-XM development was for naught...

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #119 on: July 15, 2022, 11:26:21 AM »

It appears Insteon is back in biz under new ownership. I got an email from them yesterday asking me to let them know if I'd like to be on their mailing list and then a blog post saying the servers are back up and they will soon be producing products.  See insteon.com for info.

So the XTB-XM development was for naught...

Jeff
Perhaps, but we don't know when or if the PLM will be included or whether it will continue to support X10. Even if it does, the XTB-XM is a far better choice due to it's superior signal stregth.
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