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Author Topic: Insteon as we know it is gone  (Read 4166 times)

Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2022, 05:57:24 PM »

They finally made a statement on it being gone.
https://www.insteon.com/news2022
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toasterking

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2022, 06:44:11 PM »

but have indicated UDI maybe interested in acquiring the Insteon protocol rights.
:D
They finally made a statement on it being gone.
:(

The statement seems a bit open-ended and indicates that the company is still looking for a buyer.  But "optimize the assets of the company" seems likely to lead to "liquidate the assets of the company".

If UDI ends up as the buyer of even the protocol, it will be interesting to see what they do with it.  The Insteon PLC/RF "dual mesh" protocol and implementation could never be everything to everyone, but I've always found it fascinating and think it still has life left in it.  Tech that can build a network out of nothing, over two mediums simultaneously, with built-in message repeating, recovery, and fallback, is nothing to sneeze at.
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toasterking

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2022, 08:15:43 PM »

I suppose this should have been obvious, but it turns out that the Insteon protocol, at least the PLC part, has already been reverse-engineered.  This is what has allowed open source projects like Home Assistant and OpenHAB to add Insteon support.  Beyond a legal formality for commercial development, I don't see why UDI would be seeking rights to a protocol specification that is already out in the wild and DRM-free.
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toasterking

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2022, 08:22:15 PM »

Despite the servers for their mobile app having gone offline, the Insteon user forum having vanished, and the company disappearing...

https://www.insteon.com/systemstatus
B:(

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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2022, 06:36:37 AM »

The issue at the time was the programmed chips from Smarthome for their PLM in 2017.
The we are still operational statement was dated years ago. From what I have seen.
I have seen Home Assistant with Insteon support added can use a HUB as an interface.
I know that many of the once a NDA needed information. Where released on their site so I am not surprised others have started using the message format.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2022, 01:51:49 PM »

Since I don't have a Harmony to test with, I need some info regarding startup.  When first powered up the CM11A sends a query to the host once a second for initialization.  It doesn't look like the SmartHome devices do that.  But the host may still communicate with the IM regarding its configuration, version, etc.  Obviously, any mod to the XTB-232 must support that communication just like the present version supports the CM11A initialization.

Jeff
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2022, 06:04:40 AM »

I am not sure of what is does at power up.
It uses an Ethernet connection and their APP. I never looked at the network communications.
Isn't the XTB-232 a serial type connection?
On the chance you didn't get it. The P2 Quick Start Guide.
https://docs.smartenit.com/gateways/harmony_p2_quick-start.pdf
« Last Edit: April 22, 2022, 06:15:50 AM by Brian H »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2022, 10:42:23 AM »

It uses an Ethernet connection and their APP. I never looked at the network communications.
Isn't the XTB-232 a serial type connection?
On the chance you didn't get it. The P2 Quick Start Guide.

Yes, I downloaded the Quick Start Guide from the earlier link, but it doesn't get into any communication details.  The Modem Developers Guide does that.

What isn't clear in that document is whether there is handshaking with the "02" on transmission before the other bytes are sent.  And it appears there is no handshaking at all on receiving.  The IM just sends a 4-byte burst and assumes the computer received it properly.

In addition to the X10 transmit and receive, there are other commands associated with the IM configuration.  I wondered which of those commands must be supported.

The XTB-232 is not a network device.  It emulates the same serial port communication used by the X10 CM11A.  The IM uses a typical Ethernet cable, but it is actually configured for a 19.2K Baud serial port.  So the cable used for the XTB-232 mod would have to be custom made using the 3 serial port lines - TX, RX, GND.

I don't have any information on how the SmartHome IM connects to the Harmony.  I had assumed that would be the 19.2K Baud serial link, but I have not found any documentation on how that is actually implemented.  Does one use a USB to serial adapter plugged into the Harmony?  If so, then the same USB to serial adapter should work for the XTB-XM except the cable would have to be modified from the 8-wire to the 4-wire connector used for the CM11A / XTB-232.

Jeff
« Last Edit: April 22, 2022, 10:56:40 AM by JeffVolp »
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2022, 11:09:50 AM »

Jeff,  FWIW, I've used a USB to serial adapter between the Harmony and a 2412S PLM without issue.
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bkenobi

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2022, 11:33:52 AM »

Yeah, "optimize the assets" definitely feels like code for sell off for as much as we can get.  If one company bought it all, that would be great, but most likely they will sell the tooling and IP separately to whoever can use it.

JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2022, 11:52:11 AM »

Jeff,  FWIW, I've used a USB to serial adapter between the Harmony and a 2412S PLM without issue.

That's great to know.  It must have a RJ45 to plug into the IM.  The CM11A / XTB-232 uses a 4P4C, so either it would need a different cable or an adapter.

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2022, 01:17:53 PM »

Here's some more info on the 2412S pinout:
https://images.app.goo.gl/wjDfKc3eALEYH4ts7
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2022, 02:38:58 PM »

Here's some more info on the 2412S pinout:
https://images.app.goo.gl/wjDfKc3eALEYH4ts7

Yes, that's the same as for the 2413S.  The CM11A / XTB-232 use a 4P4C with just the serial I/O and Ring Indicator.
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2022, 06:38:29 AM »

Looks like they are officially gone.
A few have started receiving a notice the creditors on it going out of business and how to process a claim on Smartlabs.

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bkenobi

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2022, 11:04:05 AM »

That's what "asset optimization" means, so no surprise here.  Too bad.
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