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Author Topic: Insteon as we know it is gone  (Read 13854 times)

brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2022, 02:48:45 PM »

Sounds like you've got a winner.  I just did some testing and found that as long as there's a 1 second delay between tapping the device on the phone it was 100% responsive.  With less than a second between taps it was about 50/50.  FWIW, I'm using a Galaxy Z Flip 3 running Android 12.  Maybe that's due to latency between the app, the AWS server and the Harmony?
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #91 on: June 28, 2022, 12:04:44 PM »

The XTB-XM appears to work fine with a new $6 USB to serial port converter:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/182297261602?ss

The smartphone "tap" also seems to be more responsive.  Whenever the screen responds to the tap, the XTB-XM toggles the appliance module.  When the screen does not respond to the tap, no command is issued to the XTB-XM, so the communication link between the two seems to be working fine.

Converting the XTB-232 to the XTB-XM requires a firmware swap (new PIC microcontroller), changing 3 resistors, and possibly 2 opto-isolators to accommodate the baud rate increasing from 4800 to 19,200.

New XTB-XM's will be custom assembled for $10 more than the standard XTB-232.

Now there does appear to be a problem with my cellphone communicating with the G2.  I was able to add one X10 appliance module a week ago, which is what I have been using for testing.  Today while I can control that X10 module just fine, the app says there is no X10 interface when I try to add another X10 module.  That is confusing because it is sending X10 commands through the XTB-XM.

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 05:54:43 PM by JeffVolp »
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #92 on: June 28, 2022, 12:21:19 PM »

In another thread two days ago, SkipWX10 reported the same problem.  I tried it myself then and again today and had no problem adding or controlling modules.  I suggested that he reboot the Harmony & try again but he hasn't posted his results. At what point in the process does the message appear? The f/w I'm running is 3.15.0-14 which is the latest (and has been for over a year).
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #93 on: June 28, 2022, 12:54:35 PM »

The G2 has the same firmware version.  The Android app is 1.38.1

The app had trouble "discovering" the G2.  I tried both WiFi and Ethernet.  I even verified that Ethernet connector was active using a computer because the app couldn't find the G2 using it.  Eventually after many tries on both Ethernet and WiFi the G2 did pop up as a Gateway with a green dot. Then I was able to set up that one appliance module.  That configuration still works today.  (I rebooted the G2 at each attempt.)

PROGRESS:  I deleted the G2, and this time I started the discovery process again with the new USB converter connected to the XTB-XM.  I could see the communication between the G2 and the XM where it sent the Get Version command.  Then the discovery process on Ethernet found the G2.  After that I was able to set up several X10 modules, including a dimmer.

BUT, there does not appear to be any option to issue a pre-set dim command.  It only sends a sequence of X10 dim commands.  I know some Insteon modules will respond to a pre-set dim command, but I don't see how to set up an Insteon dimmer module using the X10 house and unit codes.

Anyway, throughout all of this, the XTB-XM worked fine.  And another USB to serial converter (Sabrent) was delivered.  It also works fine with the G2 and XTB-XM.  So we are good to go.

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 01:54:36 PM by JeffVolp »
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #94 on: June 28, 2022, 01:51:56 PM »

Have you tried adding a device from the web portal? Be interesting to see if that works better.
https://console.smartenit.io/login
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #95 on: June 28, 2022, 01:56:41 PM »

Have you tried adding a device from the web portal? Be interesting to see if that works better.
https://console.smartenit.io/login

I was editing my prior reply when I received your response.  It looks like the earlier USB may have prevented the G2 from discovering the XTB-XM during setup.

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #96 on: June 28, 2022, 02:23:46 PM »

Have you set an 'Automation Rule' to send a dim command? In the AR setup you can set the dim level between 1-100% and then see what it sends.  Press the green + button then select 'Automation Rules' to get there.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #97 on: June 28, 2022, 05:06:17 PM »

Have you set an 'Automation Rule' to send a dim command? In the AR setup you can set the dim level between 1-100% and then see what it sends.  Press the green + button then select 'Automation Rules' to get there.

I had been using the dim level on the Devices screen.  It just sent a series of bright or dim commands as I rotated the setting.  So I set up an automation rule to set the level to 80%.  Rather than issuing a pre-set dim, it sent an ON followed by 4 dim commands.  (XTBM-Pro log)  Since the Leviton dimmer turns on at the prior dim level, sending multiple OFF / 80% ON commands winds up dimming it down to just a glow.  So that is useless.

There doesn't appear to be any way to send a pre-set dim command to a standard X10 module.

Jeff
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #98 on: June 28, 2022, 06:22:18 PM »

Jeff which Insteon Module are you looking for the X0 programming information. I have the manuals and can help maybe. Some had different features depending on the revision level of the module. So I may have a few manuals on different revisions. Sticker on back should give a revision.
 
The nice X10 programming page on the now defunct Smarthome site had a nice write up. But it is gone now.

Most you used the set button to put it into the programming mode. Pushing in the set button until the set led started flashing.Then used an X10 power line transmitter to send the X10 address (House and Unit Code) and an On or Off. Two or three times depending on the exact model. Set led stops flashing when programming was successful.

Older 2456D plug in  dimmer module used an X10 On to set the local control sensing for plugged in modules and an Off to disable it.

This is from an old users post on the way the PLM differed from other X10 message handling.
The Smarthome dim commands are based on an "old" X10 protocol similar to that used by the PCS
Smartswitches. These devices used "preset Dim" and standard "Dim" commands.

X10 brand, Leviton, and other manufacturers conform to a "newer" X10 standard that uses
"extended code Direct Dim" and standard "Dim" commands.

Most of these devices will not respond to the "preset Dim" commands.
 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 07:02:24 PM by Brian H »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #99 on: June 28, 2022, 08:25:38 PM »

Yes, I had read about pressing the button to identify an Insteon module.  But that won't work with the XTB-XM because it is X10 only.  So it will not relay any Insteon ID info to the G2.  I couldn't find any way to set up an Insteon module in the X10 mode through the Smartenit app or on the the website.

Yes, I know Leviton and newer X10 dimmers support extended commands and not pre-set dim commands.  That is why I included the ability to expand a pre-set dim command into an extended command.  I confirmed that works sending pre-set dim commands from the Ocelot.  But there doesn't seem to be any way to do that with the Harmony.

What might work is to first set up an Insteon module in the X10 mode on the desired house code, and then swap it for a Leviton or newer X10 module that responds to extended commands.  That assumes the Harmony would send a pre-set dim command to the Insteon module in the X10 mode.

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 08:28:06 PM by JeffVolp »
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2022, 09:42:54 PM »

While the Harmony does a great job adding the Alexa function to X10 systems it was primarily designed for Insteon and ZigBee systems.  I'm sure the only reason it does X10 is that it's a built in function in the PLM.  To use it with your Leviton X10, as I did in another home I've since sold, the Harmony should be used to trigger actions in your existing controller (Ocelot for you, Stargate for me). 

All of my Harmony "devices" are just otherwise unused House/Unit codes (I'm using the N housecode).  So when I tell Alexa to turn on the bedside lamps, the Harmony sends N-5, N-on. When the Stargate receives N-5, N-on it turns on the bedside lamps (M-1) to whatever level it's been set to.  I also use the same method to turn on groups of things with different codes.  Bottom line is that I can trigger the Stargate to do anything I want using only on & off commands from the Harmony as triggers.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2022, 10:38:23 PM »

While the Harmony does a great job adding the Alexa function to X10 systems it was primarily designed for Insteon and ZigBee systems.

I did interface it with Alexa, and it responds to the "Bedtime" command.  But why is that easier than just pushing 4 OFF on the Palmpad when I'm done for the night?  Either triggers the Ocelot shutdown sequence.  And the Palmpad is a tenth the price.

Maybe with more time I'll find other uses for it.

But the bottom line is that someone with an X10-only system can now use the XTB-XM for their powerline interface as an alternative for the Insteon IM.

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 10:42:45 PM by JeffVolp »
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #102 on: June 29, 2022, 07:43:07 AM »

Pressing the set button and putting into programming mode. Also would allow you to manually send the X10 information and set an X10 address in it. Besides a manual linking in Insteon.

I never found a way the remotely set the X10 address with out the manual set button starting the process. With a controller.
I never saw a remotely add an X10 address in any module manuals or developers notes. I don't believe they ever had that method in the Insteon protocol.

You can add a module in Insteon if you know its six digit ID and a Insteon controller.

Many of the manuals and developers information was also uploaded by users here. Besides a web search engines findings.
https://github.com/pyinsteon/pyinsteon/commit/2533494a8b13b30b2d0938c9a18afe782b740410
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 08:03:17 AM by Brian H »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #103 on: June 29, 2022, 09:10:24 AM »

When I developed the XTBM-Pro a decade ago I used an Insteon module in the X10 mode to verify the pre-set dim code.  I'll try to repeat that process and see if the G2 will then issue a pre-set dim command.

Jeff
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #104 on: June 29, 2022, 02:38:21 PM »

Pressing the set button and putting into programming mode. Also would allow you to manually send the X10 information and set an X10 address in it. Besides a manual linking in Insteon.

While that does work to set the X10 address, it doesn't work with the G2.  The module only sends out an Insteon command when the button is pressed.  Since the XTB-XM does not receive Insteon commands, the G2 does not see the module.  And even if I manually define the module in the Smartent app with its device code, there doesn't appear to be any way to specify it is working in the X10 compatibility mode.

Perhaps someone with an Insteon IM can determine whether the P2 or G2 issues a pre-set dim command to an Insteon dimmer in the X10 compatibility mode.  I can't do that myself because I don't have an IM for the G2.

Jeff
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