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Author Topic: led xmas trees not turning all the way off  (Read 2842 times)

ghia

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led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« on: November 11, 2023, 12:04:31 PM »

Have tried lamp modules and appliance modules. Identical results . Trees come on great, but remain very dim when trying to turn off. Have bridge and booster installed. Only problem in large house with 2 sub panels are these 3 identical tress we just bought. Have them on mechanical timers right  now but any thoughts out there???

Thanks, Tom
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Brian H

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2023, 06:04:29 PM »

Known issue. Especially the older ones.
The old designed Lamp modules and Appliance modules. Have local control sensing and this sensing voltage can keep low wattage lights (like LED} softly glowing. The appliance module also has a sensor for the ratchet type switch. To see if it is on or off when a command is received.

The Soft Start Lamp still has Local control and the CFL Friendly appliance module has the relay sensing voltage on the output. Both can have the low wattage LED strings glow dim when off.

As a test connect a plug tap on the modules output and connect the LED lights and a incandescent lamp on it also. See if that fixes the glow. Since that type of bulb is hard to find others have tried other small loads. The 4W or 7W. Night light bulbs are fine and I believe X10 at one time was recommending that fix. You can also try more strings as it may load down the voltage enough to prevent the glow.

There are some instruction on how to disable local control in the older version modules and I found how to disable it in the soft start  lamp ones.

You can test for local control. Connect a lamp to the modules output. Turn the module off so the lamp is not on. Then toggle the on off switch on the lamp itself. From on to off and back on again. If the lamp turns on with no X10 command. Your module has local control sensing.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 05:01:42 AM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2023, 05:13:57 AM »

Since the Lamp Modules are not designed for loads like LED light strings. May work OK with dim style  LED bulbs in things like table lamps.
It is not recommended to use one for that purpose.
Use an Appliance Module as it has a on off relay in it and is better for led strings and other things that are not designed to be on a dim style module.
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ghia

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2023, 10:09:47 AM »

Morning. Just tried LM465 ( 09J44 ) lamp module before I read your latest. It is soft start, but was no help. Very erratic. Next I tried AM486 ( 09K46 ) appliance module that is not soft start. On perfectly, will not go off completely. Funny, in the off position, the lights are brighter at the beginning of the "string" and get weaker farther up the small tree.

We have used X10 for years in old houses that we like. I guess I need some newer modules?? I have trouble understanding why appliance modules have this issue. I thought it was a "hard" on / off contact closure when activated. Did not think it would care what the load is.

Guess I will just use manual timers in places unless something comes along.

Thanks for attempt. Tom
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Brian H

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2023, 12:54:22 PM »

That sounds like the On Off relay sensor or maybe local control. I had originally thought local control was not in the CFL friendly appliance modules.
My tests for local control are not firm and if it went on was determined by wiring and if I had my current meter in the setup. Could in my case also been noise from the switch I had to toggle the lamps built in on off switch.
You can many times stop the dim at off. By putting a small load along with the problem LED strings on the Appliance Modules switched outlet.
That may depend on your setup for the lights and if a power tap and small load are possible.
The dimer as you got further from the module. Could be normal and depend on how the manufacturer has the individual LED wired into the string.
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ghia

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2023, 02:08:17 PM »

Thanks for info. We have lots of trees; most are old enough to be incandescent. New ones with the problem must be very low draw; put two on same appliance module and no help. Will have to get nosey enough to go to attic and look on box!

Oh, if you get a chance: Is there any way to id a soft start module other than testing?

Thanks
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Brian H

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2023, 04:16:46 PM »

Soft Start modules are only Lamp Modules. Turn them on or off and they will slowly ramp on and off at about a two second rate. Mine also do have a local control sensor in them.
Appliance modules that are CFL friendly. Only have the is the ratchet relay on or off sensor in them. Older ones have local control and the on off sensor.
My earlier post was incorrect. I did a test with a table lamp and my CFL friendly ones do not have local control in them. Only the on off sensor.
I have seen mid 2007 for when the new designs where done. The date code sticker would give you that information.

The older incandescent ones. Will draw the sensor voltage down so both old and CFL appliance modules will not glow.
The LED ones as you have said. Use such little current off. That they may glow. Probably brighter on the before CFL versions. With local control and on off sensor.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 04:33:07 PM by Brian H »
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cirripedia

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2023, 05:15:09 PM »

Recently upgraded (?) to the WiFi hub and now have issue with Holiday LED string lights flashing every second when turned off.  Tried using both lamp module and appliance module and still flashing. Didn't have this problem with the old CM15A.  Any ideas as to how to stop the flashing when turned off?  FYI, my CM15A died, not working, so I replaced it with the WiFi hub WM100
« Last Edit: November 25, 2023, 05:33:55 PM by cirripedia »
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Tuicemen

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2023, 02:55:13 PM »

The WM100 was no upgrade over the CM15A, the only benifits to using the WM100 is wifi and a stronger plc send. I still use the CM15  and use the WM100 only for remote web connections. Although ido ise some timers with the WM100 most are used with the CM15A.
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Brian H

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2023, 05:58:56 PM »

Those module have Local Control Sensing and Appliance modules also a ratchet relay on or off sensor.
They are known to cause low current loads like a Christmas Light Sets to act like you are seeing.
Depending on the module's age.
There are fixes for some version.

You can use a power tap and put the LED lights and a load like a night light on the output to drain down the stray current. That should work for any version module.
Best to not use a dimmer on LED Christmas lights.
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cirripedia

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2023, 03:33:11 PM »

The issue of flashing LED Holiday lights when using a lamp module was resolved when I added a string of miniature lights (load) to the module.  Thank you guys for the help and expertise.
  #:) >!
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N-Tesla

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2023, 08:48:42 AM »

I recall I ran into this issue way back when LED tree lights first came out. (And it did it with both the lamp or appliance modules.)
The lights were plugged into a power bar that was plugged into the module.
I added an old incandescent type "Night Light" to the power bar and replaced the clear bulb with a coloured "C7" size Christmas string bulb.

They still sell them but make sure you get the one with the manual switch on it. NOT the "Auto" ones with a photocell.
Menards seems cheapest at $1.49. (At the moment.)

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gadgetboy

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Re: led xmas trees not turning all the way off
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2023, 08:06:52 AM »

I have also had some success using an old a/c adapter plugged in to the appliance or lamp module. There is enough load to stop the led lamp glowing when the X10 unit is off.  The incandescent nightlight works well too.
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