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Author Topic: noise, noise, noise  (Read 1950 times)

gadgetboy

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noise, noise, noise
« on: December 21, 2023, 10:48:37 AM »

Once more into the breech.

I have recently purchased 2 mini pc's for media controllers and they function nearly perfectly, except when they are plugged in my X10 controls function as they wish, whether I am running my Homegenie on PC or RPi 3b+. I understand this is the laptop type power supplies of the mini pcs sending interference back into the circuits Just wondering what filtering I should use to help reduce the interferance caused.

Second problem. During a recent reno of my roof, the contractor discovered a spot in my roof was charred by an old cloth insulated Loomix cable. Duriny the rewiring I changed layout to enable the use of WS469 switches for my Kitchen(100 watts of LED Flourescent replacement) and Porch (8 watt LED bulb). Both these fixtures work well turning on, but not off. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Dave
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brobin

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2023, 06:13:02 PM »

First, plug the PC power supplies into an XPPF noise filter to solve that. Check Amazon & ebay for best prices (under $20).
For the LED issue you need a choke wired between the switch and the light fixture either in the switch box or at the fixture. Read this:

https://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfl.pdf

TLDR version:
If you are handy, an inexpensive solution for many table lamps is to install a 1000uH Miller 5258-RC
"Hash Choke" in series with the hot lead. Double insulate it with shrink sleeving. While the 1000uH
inductor is rated 1 amp (100 watt bulb), I recommend the higher current 250uH 5254-RC if you will ever
use a high-wattage incandescent bulb in that lamp. Electronic supply houses such as Digikey and Mouser
carry the chokes and suitable shrink sleeving.

If you have trouble finding the choke let me know as I have a handful of them or see this ebay listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195673408214?hash=item2d8f0b42d6:g:894AAOSwEzRkGzxa&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwKaQlVhH%2F66oqG0kgAaM0zdcw040kktSXUb%2FQ4AH%2FESjbECRqw94J3%2Fud36bHM8ExXU2Dz4PpMWdAbQBAc6fM2hEQYrUhznbuWYQDwPhUGa81RN7%2FdT7NgzgHMb8yaQQk6stAihhvDMDZF7QL1aIGTjAJunujV6DRgjAOx0PlKvagQX8lYkFz%2FeTRcurAam2vEoxvNroepX%2BTU%2FBXoQ1PKGvl8FonJD2wrmcpfNYyMijcX%2FBSX9kO3EVweMkDZuz2Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-rPpeqRYw
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gadgetboy

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2023, 11:03:31 PM »

Thank you very much for the speedy consise reply. I will order these parts tomorrow.

Dave
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gadgetboy

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2023, 09:25:45 AM »

There. Parts ordered. Now just to wait for everything to clear customs and allow me to get this back the way it was. Wife is of the opinion I am a fool until everything works well, then I am a genius. Thanks for your support in keeping me on the genius side of the scale.
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gadgetboy

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2024, 10:36:00 AM »

Total sucess on the power supplies. Both mimis are functioning beautifully and as I thought they would. The L.E.D. tubes are working oddly. Until about 10:00 A.M. they switch as ordered. After that they often will not switch off, occasionally will switch on as ordered. Should I install more of the chokes by separating the power leads and running the chokes in parallel. I have ordered 2 XTB-ANR modules to use near the breaker box and hope they will amplify the signal for this and other occasional glitches. Does anyone have other suggestions?
I have used X10 units since about 1985 in a casual way but have started taking it more seriously in the past several years and have really enjoyed the challenges posed, and only occasionally used forbidden phrases.

Thank you for your help

Dave
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brobin

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2024, 12:20:06 PM »

What else is being turned on at or around 10am? I suspect that another noisemaker is being turned on at that time and that's what needs a choke or filter as well. Could be a TV, another LED light, a printer, PC, pool equipment, charger...
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gadgetboy

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2024, 01:40:30 PM »

I believe it would be one of the houses that share the transformer in our back alley. At least er have nothing coming on in the morning. Nothing except our water heater or furnace, and they are natural gas. Any ideas how we can filter the power as it enters our residence? I don't know our neighbors well enough to ask them what comes on at 10 am. would it change anything to install more filters in our converted flourescent filters?
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brobin

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2024, 05:30:39 PM »

The LED's only generate noise when on which is why you can turn them on but not off. There is a whole house entry filter but it's a PITA to install after the panel is installed as it requires pulling the neutral.  However, I once had a neighbor with a baby monitor that caused issues and I installed this device in the main panel across the two hot legs and it did the job.  A repeater might be helpful too to raise the signal level.
https://www.x10.com/collections/x10-filters-and-repeaters/products/xpnr
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gadgetboy

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2024, 08:10:44 AM »

Thanks. I placed an order for a pair of  XTB-ANRs and hope they will help. If I need to get into the hottest part of the breaker box I may just go back to a standard toggle switch in the kitchen. Evervthing else seems to work at least 95% of the time.  The ANR modules will no doubt help in other ways so no loss there. Thanks for the guidance in this matter.

Dave
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brobin

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2024, 06:39:15 PM »

Post your results with the ANR units.  The XPNR can be attach to the two poles on a 240v breaker so can be installed safely.  The one I have in my X10 bin was originally a Leviton Part number and is 40 years old!
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glacier991

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2024, 09:22:59 PM »

I have a couple of "new in box" 250 Amp filters designed to prevent house to house issues. (PZZ01). Intallation may not be DIY however.

Let me know if you want to buy one, I will come up with a fair price.
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gadgetboy

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2024, 10:46:22 PM »

Thank ou for the offer.  Customs has given me the runaround yet again (I am in Canada) and the parts I ordered only just got here, I hope to install them tomorrow. The filters sound like just the thing and I will send you an IM if These things fail to address my issues, which seem to be changing. Immediately after installing the filters for the led tubes, the switch would work in the morning but not later. Now they may work in the morning and sometimed after suppertime but not in the afternoon.  What is recorded in the logs is not what I observe out here in the real world, so I will have to watch what changes.

I also just noticed an other led tube fixture torns on and off with my kitchen ventilation fan (sometimes). A real headscratcher that makes me believe this is PLC noise related.

I will report back about any changes I notice.
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glacier991

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2024, 11:26:24 PM »

Generally speaking a "works now, fine" and not "then" is a strong indication of either a "noisemaker" coming online (this can be hard to figure out) OR, a lack of bridging between the two legs of a 240 volt system. Things that will make it work in the latter are virtually any 240 volt appliance coming alive.. dryers, ovens, stoves etc are obvious. A frequent one not often thought of is an electric hot water heater.

If you have an electric oven or stove, when it will not work, turn either of them on and see if it works. That can verify or eliminate the phase issue.

Next step if that does not do it, (and you can verify a non-op condition exists at that point in time)and assuming your significant other will not object to resetting every clock in the house, is to find the circuit that your controller is feeding and turn it on....so you are "online".  Once you have verified that, find a circuit that a device you are worried  about is on, and turn that on. You will now have 2 circuits energized. Verify proper operation of your questionable device.

NOW, start turning on breakers one at a time.... until the non-op returns. The last breaker that tipped the cart will house your noisemaker.

Keep us posted.

Chris

ps. I will note that X10, much as I am a devotee, in general handles flourescents and LED's in a variable manner based on the mfgr of the lighting device. Some work, some not so much. It took me a while to turn my house into a "compliant" LED house and eliminate the X-10 issues.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2024, 11:29:06 PM by glacier991 »
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gadgetboy

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2024, 09:37:05 AM »

Finally.

No not yet, but closer.

My orders finally got through customs. Got down the basement and wired them in. Suddenly my entrance light behaves oddly. A led flourescent Light that has worked without issue for years suddenly works in tandem with a circulation fan. OK, reset the buttons in homegenie. Problem solved. Now gotta struggle up a ladder and install the chokes in the kitchen lights. Sorry it is taking so long to do these installs but between the MS and the stroke I need to pick my days carefully. Thank you all for your patience.

Dave
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brobin

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Re: noise, noise, noise
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2024, 07:03:08 PM »

Sorry to hear about the health issues.  You can save the trips up the ladder by installing the choke at the WS469 switch instead of the fixture. The Blue wire on the WS469 goes to the fixture so remove the wire nut and connect one lead from the choke to the Blue wire and the the other lead to the wire going to the fixture. Done!  That's the way I did it with a pool light.
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