Appliance Module "Power Failure" Modification Help

[SteveRF]

Hello All,
Does anyone know how to mod an appliance
module so that a POWER FAILURE will result in
the module returning to the OFF state without
fail.
I have a small pump that I DO NOT want to
return to run status after a power failure.
On occassion after a power failure, the pump
fails to start and trips only after teh
thermal overload breaks.  This is NOT good...
My other option, anyone know of a breaker
that will trip on power failure and require a
manual reset to restore ?
Regards,
SteveRF

[Brian H]

How much current are you talking about. I
have done a modification to a Lamp Module
that adds a solid state relay to it. Then it
can control inductive devices like motors
and cfls. Lamp Modules default to off when
the power is interupted. Down side could be
lamp modules will respond to an all lights
on command. So technically it could be
turned on in some cases by something like a
security consols all lights on signal when
triggered. Also if you try and dim the
address, it will not dim but when the normal
dim level is low enough the SSR just turns
off.

[Brian H]

http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm Is one site where the modifacations can be found and he has a link to tparents site where I found my mod. I did remove the local control components; though he did not. If more current is needed a larger SSR can be wired in if needed.

[SteveRF]

Brian,
Thanks for the response...
The pump motor in question is 120VAC, 1/2 HP
As noted earlier, I am really looking for a
"failsafe" method to trip power after a power
loss so that the pump cannot restart without
a manual reset.
Thanks,

SteveRF

[roger1818]

You could probably modify an appliance
module by removing the relay and use a
normally off relay that is triggered by a
flip-flop connected to pin 6 on the PIC.

As for a breaker that will trip on a power
failure, you could check out emergency stop
switches sold to machine shops.  I think
some of them will trip on a power failure.

[Brian H]

Rogers ideas may make better sense, if the
lamp module maybe not 100% fool proof.

[dave w]

Steve,

How about using a 4PDT 120v ac coil relay,
with 1 pole wired as a self latch.
(momentary push button supplies 120V to coil
and two NO contacts of relay are wired
across push button. Once you push the button
relay remains closed until power
interuption. You will have to push button
again to relatch) Two poles wired to supply
power to the appliance module? "All
Electronics", and "MECI" have 20 amp 120v
coil relays for about $5. Radio Shark used
to also carry 120v coil relays.

[Brian H]

Dave; That sounds like a very good way to do
it. You still have X10 control with the
appliance module but on a power loss the AC
to the module stays off, untill reset.

[SteveRF]

Roger, that sounds like a lot of mods...but
maybe workable.. Thanks

Dave W.  THANKS !... sounds like a plan..good
idea.. I have already ordered a couple of
120vac relays , couple of momentary button
switches and a few other goodies that caught
my eye... I'll build it in a large receptacle
box so that I can include a receptacle and
just plug in the pump...WOW..good idea..

This forum is just full of nice folks with
good ideas !

Regards,
SteveRF

[carmine pacifico]

SteveRF

Make sure the relay you ordered is rated
for your pump motor.
If you do not want to build one, there are
ready made fail safe box available for
power tools, electrical wholesale usually
carry them.

[SteveRF]

Carmine,
Thanks for the tip... actually, I was looking
for a manufactured trip but was unable to
find one and was not sure it would be cost
efficient.
I have decided to go with the relay and have
a 12 amp 120vac in hand, mom push button
etc... my latest mod is to abandon carrying
the pump load thru the relay and simply use
the relay to cause a ground fault on that
circuit which will trip the ground fault
breaker... It may save my pump after a power
failure..because the power failures here are
always when I am not home (smile) or during a
hurricane (which I understand).  Thanks for
the tip.  Sometimes we do forget the obvious.
Regards,
SteveRF

[SteveRF]

All,
The mod is complete... and works well.
Many thanks for all the ideas !
I used the relay to create an artificial
ground fault between the Neutral and Ground.
That condition tripped the Ground Fault
Breaker and required a manual reset to
restart my pump.  Now I don't have to worry
about my pump failing to start up after a
brief power failure.  Many Thanks to all...
Regards,
SteveRF

[Brian H]

Now that is a unique solution! Force a
ground fault. As long as someone else
doesn't try it and get the hot by mistake.

[SteveRF]

Brian,
Your Right !
Maybe they will notice when the relay
contacts Spark and fuse together..smile
Hope they test using a GFI protected circuit.
SteveRF

[Charles Sullivan]

SteveRF:
If I have this straight: Power goes off;
relay closes; power comes back on; relay
causes ground fault; GFI opens circuit to a
1/2 HP pump motor which is drawing starting
current.

Good grief - it's easy to understand why
localities require licensed electricians to
do electrical work.  Better not let the city
inspector get wind of your scheme.