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Lamp / Appliance Module no good with LED lights?

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donald mcmow:
Another part of the problem is that LED
lights have such a small current draw that
they might light up with just the sense
current. Also some switches will not work
properly with a current draw of less than a
certain amperage - they have a low wattage
limit (I've seen about 40 watts).

yeldarb:
I had a string of LED holiday lights plugged into a Lamp Module (LM465) and noticed that when "off" they were still on very dim.
I switched out the Lamp Module for an Appliance Module (61-2684A) but they were still dim when "off".

I was happy to find this thread discussing the sensing circuit, so I tried that (clipped the diode).  However it seems to have made no difference.  I was unaware of the "sensing circuit", in fact I didn't know that an applicance could be turned on without sending a remote signal...  so perhaps there are other things about X10 of which I am unaware.

What is this business about a small amount of current being allowed through the Appliance Module even when it's "off"???   If that's the case, then what kind of X-10 module do I need to buy that is strictly "ON" or "OFF" with no current sensor or current seepage?

Brian H:
Local control. You can turn on a device locally; if it is off. If the module is off. Turning the controlled devices power switch off then back one is sensed and the module turns back on. This also is why CFLs many times turn back on.
The diode and jumper stop the circuit from triggering but there are still a few resistors in the circuit supplying some current. The LEDs take so little power they don't go all the way off. Try a small standard 4 watt night light on the output of the module along with the LED lights.
Did your Appliance Module match the layout of the ones shown in the mods? There are reports of new modules what completely different layouts and parts.

X10kludge:
Here's an easy fix for LED lamp glow (and perhaps flicker) with X10 modules (AM466 appliance modules in particular).    Recently I replaced several outdoor halogen floodlights with LED units and was surprised to see that they remained ON (faintly but definitely) even when switched off.  I had assumed that the appliance modules, which click audibly when switched on or off and which have no dimming function, were simple relays  . . . but it turns out that, like the dimmable lamp modules, they emit a small current.  This doesn't make incandescent or halogen bulbs glow, but it does so with the efficient LED's.

X10 websites show many schemes for modifying the AM466 to defeat this; it relates to "local control" current, and it involves clipping resistor(s) and/or diodes.   Unfortunately, there are many different makes and models of the unit with different circuit board layouts, and the online plans don't distinguish among them. 

Fortunately, along the way, I saw mention of hooking a small load such as a night light in parallel with an LED lamp to draw away current and eliminate the glow.  This would of course just replace one glow with another, albeit the night lights could be tucked away in the cabinet with my X10 modules.  Then I saw mention of using a small AC adapter, e.g. a phone charger,  typically 1W or less, as the load.  One simply plugs a splitter/adapter into the X10 module and then plugs in the LED lamp and the dummy load in parallel.

I have a whole collection of AC power supplies in different sizes; I tried a couple of the 5V units, which are most plentiful, and mirabile dictu no more glow!  I ordered several inexpensive USB phone chargers, and alas these didn't solve the problem; they replaced the steady glow with an intermittent glow, flickering about 1/sec.  Perhaps these use solid state switching rather than good, old fashioned transformers . . .   In any event, I've gone back to the older power supplies, and these work very nicely.  It's a simple plug-and-play solution.

I wonder what principles are involved here, and what dummy load (resistive, inductive, etc.) would be ideal (lowest power, lowest cost)?   Would a similar approach work for dimmer modules?  I have some dimmer circuits with multiple lamps which will accept LED's as long as one halogen bulb (resistive load) remains.   In a dimmer circuit with a single lamp, I wonder what load might be plugged into a socket adapter, in parallel with the lamp?

Brian H:
Depending on the revision Appliance Module. The older ones have Local Control Sensing and a small sensing voltage to detect if the ratchet switch is On or Off. The Local Control Sensing voltage would keep low current loads like an LED bulb to glow or sometimes trigger the module back On.

The presently sold Appliance modules are called CFL friendly and only the small On Off sensing is on the output. In most cases it is so small the LED bulb behaves.

The added load basically draws enough current when the module is Off kill the small sensing currents. Small incandescent night lights are good. Any other type loads like small wall warts may or may not work. As some actually try and start up with the small currents.

If you are asking about a Lamp Module the small load should also kill the sensing voltages. Though you have to make sure the small load is safe to be on a dimmer. If you are asking about a wall switch dimmer. They steal power through the bulb load. One incandescent bulb in the load should kill the glow if the rest of the bulbs are LED.

Some have had good results with a 33K 1W resistor. Though care must be used for a proper and safe connection.

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