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Author Topic: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added  (Read 6373 times)

Don N

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Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« on: January 18, 2006, 09:34:45 PM »

I have a motion sensor set up to turn on a
front entry light.  It works fine, but when
I plug in a TM751 to help "lengthen" my
motion sensor range a strange thing
happens.  When motion is detected the light
comes on, then blinks, and the light comes
on again.  All in about 1-2 seconds.  Why
does the light blink when I add the TM751?
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 01:07:42 AM »

It sounds like there's a collision between the
power line signals sent by the CM15A and by the
TM751.  If the CM15A doesn't have suffient range
for reliable detection, disable transceiving in
the CM15A (AHP: Tools > Hardware configuration)
and rely just on the TM751.
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Yesterday it worked.
Today it doesn't work.
X10 on Windows is like that.

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murphy

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 08:00:06 AM »

The TM751 does not listen to the AC line for
X10 signals.  It only listens for RF X10
signals.  It will transmit on the AC line on
top of any signal that may already be there
from another unit.  The resulting collision
of signals can create any manner of strange
events.  A TM751 should be on a unique house
code that is not used by any other transmitter.
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rob

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 07:19:19 PM »

Don,
"Charles Sullivan" is right...
See my post to Alan under the
thread "Active Home Pro needs a new home.
Rob
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Don N

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 08:44:45 PM »

Thanks everyone for these two ideas.  I've
tried both of them and they work very
nicely ... no collisons.  Now I can move
forward and get my cameras to record on my
PC when motion is detected.  Thanks again.  
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Don N

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2006, 09:50:34 PM »

UPDATE:
Well I was a little hasty in my testing.  I
tried what Charles and Rob suggested, but
the result was still the same ... light
blinks once when motion is detected.  I
took the batteries out of the CM15A, I set
the Transceived House Codes to None,
Updated Interface, Cleared Interface
Memory, Downloaded Timers and Macros and
set the TM751 to my Monitored House Code.
It would seem that this would work.  But it
didn't.  Maybe there is something wrong
with my CM15A.

If I try Murphy's suggestion there is no
blinking and everything works fine.
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2006, 10:58:51 PM »

Don,
Very strange.  I can't duplicate your problem
and wonder if your downloaded macros have
something to do with it.  Does the AHP
Activity Monitor show anything beyond the
expected RF and power line signals?

Are you using any lamp module different from
a standard X10 WS467 Wall Switch or LM465
Plug-in Lamp Module?
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Yesterday it worked.
Today it doesn't work.
X10 on Windows is like that.

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bruce

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2006, 11:01:34 PM »

Be sure to click the update interface
button from within the hardware
configuration window so the disabled house
codes take effect.
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Don N

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2006, 12:23:28 PM »

Charles,
I'm using a WS12A 3-way dimmer wall switch
to control the lamp.  My macros are very
simple.  I have an On marco that turns the
lamp on at dusk and dims to 50%.  An Off
macro that turns the lamp off at dawn. A
Motion Detected macro that brightens the
lamp to 100%, waits 20 seconds then dims
the lamp to 50%.  I don't have any other
macros or x10 products in the mix.  I would
really like to get this to work so I can
use the TM751 to help increase my RF range
for other projects.  
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2006, 04:04:21 PM »

Don,
The motion detectors have a photocell
function which sends out a second RF signal
when light and dark are detected.  It's sent
on the same housecode but at the unitcode+1
of the motion signal.  Could this signal be
triggering your lights-off-at-dawn macro and
thus causing the blink?
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Yesterday it worked.
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X10 on Windows is like that.

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Don N

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2006, 05:42:24 PM »

Charles,
I think I'm alright regarding the
UnitCode+1.  My WS12A light switch is B2.
Lamp On macro is B5 and Lamp Off macro is
B6.  The motion detector (which is set for
night only) is B3 and the Motion Detected
macro is B3 also.

Tonight I'm going to look at the Activity
Monitor and see if I can get a clue from
that.
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Don N

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2006, 11:40:09 PM »

Charles,
Here are the Activity Monitor entries.
There is activity with UnitCode+1 (which is
B4).  The motion sensor is B3.  But I don't
understand it??

Event Date/Time Action Data
0 01/21/2006 8:26:27 pm Receive B3 (Front
Door Sensor)
1 01/21/2006 8:26:28 pm Receive B On (Front
Door Sensor)
2 01/21/2006 8:26:31 pm Receive B4
3 01/21/2006 8:26:31 pm Receive B Off
4 01/21/2006 8:26:31 pm Macro B2 (Lamp)
5 01/21/2006 8:26:31 pm Macro B Bright 99
(Lamp)
6 01/21/2006 8:26:53 pm Macro B2 (Lamp)
7 01/21/2006 8:26:53 pm Macro B Dim 50
(Lamp)
8 01/21/2006 8:26:56 pm Receive B4
9 01/21/2006 8:26:56 pm Receive B On
10 01/21/2006 8:27:41 pm Receive B3 (Front
Door Sensor)
11 01/21/2006 8:27:41 pm Receive B Off
(Front Door Sensor)

I'm stumped.  Does anyone have any ideas??
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2006, 12:58:39 AM »

The confusing part is what happens at time
08:26:31.  You would expect the [B4][B Off]
sequence to occur as a _result_ of the [B2][B
Bright 99] sequence, not to precede it.

Three things to consider:
1. A Dim/Bright signal on the power line is
actually a train of individual Dim/Bright
signals whose length is proportional to the
amount of dimming or brightening.
2. A lamp module which is initially Off will
go to full brightness when it receives the
first Dim or Bright signal.
3. The CM15A is supposed to wait for a clear
power line before starts sending. I don't
know for certain whether it will attempt to
re-send if another power line signal collides
with its initial attempt, but it sure looks
like it.

So my hypothesis is this: When it receives
the [B3][B On], the CM15A starts sending the
[B2][B Bright 99] signals.  But at the first
Bright, the lamp modules turns On to full
brightness and the motion detector sends its
[B4] and [B Off] signals,  but the [B4]
collides with the rest of the train of
Brights.  Because of the collision, the CM15A
stops sending.  Also because of the
collision, the [B4] address byte is
corrupted, so the lamp module ignores it and
remains addressed as B2 and is turned Off by
the [B Off].  Then the CM15A resends the [B2]
[B Bright 99] over again and the lamp modules
turns On again.

This seems like a pretty far out explanation
but it's the best one I can come up with.
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Yesterday it worked.
Today it doesn't work.
X10 on Windows is like that.

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Don N

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2006, 11:03:30 AM »

X10 --

This whole scenerio of turning up the
intensity of a lamp when motion is detected
seems very basic.  Am I the only one having
a problem with the lamp blinking when
motion is detected?  If not, then I hope
you are addressing this issue with a fix in
the next update for AHP.  If I'm the only
one with this problem, how can I solve the
collison issue (as Charles suggests in his
hypothesis)?  
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Strange thing happens when TM751 is added
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2006, 11:43:10 AM »

Don,
This is not an AHP problem per se but the
general problem with collisions which exists
in X10 communication.  Recall that the lamp
didn't blink before you added the TM751,
which just rudely sends without checking for
a clear line.  But the motion detector is at
the heart of the problem.

One solution to your problem is to open the
motion detector and put a piece of black tape
over the photocell element to eliminate the
Off signal it sends when the lamp comes on.
Then use a Smart Macro to control the time of
day when the motion detector will turn on the
lamp.
Logged
Yesterday it worked.
Today it doesn't work.
X10 on Windows is like that.

HEYU - X10 Automation for Linux, Unix, and Mac OS X     http://www.heyu.org
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