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Author Topic: Detect Water Leak  (Read 10541 times)

cesmith

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Detect Water Leak
« on: January 06, 2007, 05:03:35 PM »

I am new to X10 security and I need advice on what I need to install to detect a water leak.  I have had my water heater leak twice and last winter my water main meter started spraying water all over.  Lucky I was home and found it.  The city had to come out on New Year's Day and turn the water off coming in to the house.

What products do I need to detect and alert my X10 security system for a water leak on the basement floor?

Thanks,

Charles
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Puck

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 05:31:53 PM »

What products do I need to detect and alert my X10 security system for a water leak on the basement floor?

You could look for some commerical water detection product with a Normally Closed switch and interface it with a Window / Door Sensor (DS10A).
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hostilejava

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2007, 05:32:36 PM »

Looks like this:

http://www.smarthome.com/7160.html

Wired to a door/window sensor is what your looking for.
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cesmith

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 12:00:40 AM »

Thanks for the info.  It looks like the AC powered WaterBug is the one that will work with a closed connection and the battery operated WaterBug only works with a open connection.

If the power goes out does the WaterBug trip the alarm or just not detect a water leak?

Charles
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Puck

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 09:33:49 AM »

You can use a Normally Open switch with the Door / Window Sensor (DS10A), if you're handy with a soldering iron.  ;)

Open up the DS10A and solder two wires to the test button; one on each side of this normally open switch. Make sure your wires are small enough to not interfere with reassembling the DS10A and that the test switch still works so you can register it with the security base as normal.

You can then connect these wires to a Normally Open water sensor.

I have been running one like this since last April connected to a Universal Module (UM506) (which is also a Normally Open switch). I've been using it to allow AHP and my ActiveEye (MS16A) motion sensors to trigger my security system (DS7000).
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Oldtimer

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 10:05:04 AM »


I have been running one like this since last April connected to a Universal Module (UM506) (which is also a Normally Open switch). I've been using it to allow AHP and my ActiveEye (MS16A) motion sensors to trigger my security system (DS7000).


Puck: This sounds interesting and, although I think I know what you're doing, I'd like more imformation about the whole interface you mention and how it works.  Would you write it up with  more detail as a new post for us. Thanks.
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Puck

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 10:22:15 AM »

Puck: This sounds interesting and, although I think I know what you're doing, I'd like more imformation about the whole interface you mention and how it works.  Would you write it up with  more detail as a new post for us. Thanks.

Good idea Oldtimer, I shall do that. I will take some pictures of the mod tonight.  ;)

I guess this could still be of interest to some since OnAlert DOES NOT (yet) have the capability of triggering the PS561 voice dialer.

DS10A Modification for Interfacing to a Normally Open Switch

[Added link to modification thread.]
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 08:20:37 PM by Puck »
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Kiteloop

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2007, 08:40:10 PM »

I was hoping to run a second voice dialer for 24 hour monitoring for water leaks and low temperature so I ordered a voice dialer, with some window/door sensors and these water sensors which can be configured for normally closed applications.  http://www.specialtyalarms.com/site/1313932/product/80-5019 
They don't seem to work with the wireless window/door sensors.  I'm thinking perhaps more voltage is required to run them?  Nothing is specified on the water sensor in terms of voltage.  Any ideas what the issue is, or how it could be solved?
Thanks
Bruce
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Puck

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2007, 10:01:40 PM »

They don't seem to work with the wireless window/door sensors.  I'm thinking perhaps more voltage is required to run them?

The link you provided doesn't give much info on how these sensors work. If they require a voltage, then they will not work with the DS10A. But step #4 on the website indicates it can be used for a dry contact... but I'm confused to how you can switch between NO & NC just by swapping the wires  ??? A dry contact switch should not have polarity.

Maybe these sensors are designed for use on a specific system.
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Kiteloop

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2007, 11:18:19 PM »

Thanks for the quick response.  Absolutely no more info in the packaging or on the product.  It is rather strange alright - if you hook them up one way it remains open all the time, if you flip them around it remains closed all the time.  It just doesn't open or close when it is wet in either configuration.  I just tried it with a 16 volt source and it still doesnt activate when wet.
I emailed the retailer - perhaps they can shed some light on it.

Maybe I should just order from somewhere else - what is the recommended best water sensor to hook with the window/door sensors?  The one listed above which has it's own power supply?
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2007, 01:23:19 PM »


They don't seem to work with the wireless window/door sensors.  I'm thinking perhaps more voltage is required to run them?

...But step #4 on the website indicates it can be used for a dry contact... but I'm confused to how you can switch between NO & NC just by swapping the wires  ??? A dry contact switch should not have polarity.

My 'take' on this sensor comes from these specific lines:

  • The water level sensor can activate with the presence or absence of water.

  • Detects low water condition in fish tanks.

  • NO/NC Capability.

I suggest that a few minutes spent with an Ohmmeter and a pan of water will clear everything up.

Does the sensor have an UP ARROW on it? My first thoughts are of a tiny float connected to a SPDT switch. [See where I'm going with this?] ;)
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2007, 01:31:26 PM »


...if you hook them up one way it remains open all the time, if you flip them around it remains closed all the time...

Sound fine to me - NO & NC.


...I just tried it with a 16 volt source and it still doesnt activate when wet...

A *VERY* bad decision, IMO. I hope you didn't burn out the tiny contacts inside the sensor.  :-\

Ohmmeter, pan of water, report back with your fiindings...


[TTA Edit: Had to change formatting of NO & NC to match Puck's previously-set standard.]
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 01:35:55 PM by TakeTheActive »
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Puck

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2007, 01:42:22 PM »


...if you hook them up one way it remains open all the time, if you flip them around it remains closed all the time...

Sound fine to me - NO & NC.

IMHO NO & NC are determined by the device (typically)... the internal switch is either OPEN or it's CLOSED. This cannot be changed by simply swapping the colored ( ???) wires with each other. If the wires are polarized (colored  ???) then the sensor is not a TYPICAL dry contact switch, be rather an electronic switch which requires a proper interface.

Quote
Ohmmeter, pan of water, report back with your fiindings...

I hope the OP does this... I am very curious about this one.
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Kiteloop

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Re: Detect Water Leak
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2007, 06:26:00 PM »

My first instinct was to put an ohmmeter on it as well - it remains open all the time, regardless of wet or dry, or orientation.  The last thing I did was try that 16V power to see if it would activate with water, so I dont know if that burned the contacts. I have more sensors since I ordered a spare so not a big deal.  At this point I dont think this is a simple off/on switch - there must be some intelligence in there that needs voltage.

When I wire it for normally closed (power from the window/door sensor to the green) it says that it is closed all the time which is good, except when I put it in water nothing happens.  The retailer was not able to help me yet, so not sure. 

I also ordered a low temp sensor from the same company.  It does have a recommended dialer to be used with so looked at the specs of it:  min 5V and max 28 volts going to the sensor circuits.  The temp sensor is speced as normally closed BUT it remains open when I check it with an ohmmeter.  It remains open on when on the DS10A in either cofiguration.  Perhaps 2.5 volts just is not enough power to run it

It looks to me as though these can't be made to work with X10 because of the low voltage, but I am only guessing at this point.  They certainly dont work if you just hook them up, so I'm not sure if there is another way.

thaks for the pointers, looks like the search continues for me.
Bruce
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