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[ed]

I have two 220 V AC feeds in my house, i.e.
two electric boxes next to each other in the
basement.   If you want to cover all the
bases (you want the X10 signal to be
transmitted from any outlet to any other)
then I figured out that I would need 6
capacitors each 240V AC but not sure about
the capacitance.  (0.1 microfarad is
recommended for a single feed jumper).
Note: if you are transmitting from just one
location/outlet and don’t plan on ever
changing then you can do it with 3
capacitors.  Since the capacitors needed are
cheap ($1.50 ea) I would go with 6.
My question is “has anyone ever done this
before and if so what size capacitor did you
use”?

[Brian H]

You may wnt to look at the tutorials on the
ACT Solutions web site
www.act-solutions.com/uncle.htm
They have information on such things a
industrial installs with mutiple feeds.

[gil shultz]

The key is where are the circuits fed from.  If they come from a common transformer and it is single phase then only capacitor is needed.  You probably will have to buy the capacitor with a DC rating, purchase 600V devices, your P to P voltage will be over 500V.

Gil Shultz

[Brian H]

I personally would get one made for an AC Line situation. The one I used was made to be on an AC power line and had a UL AC line recognition and other overseas standards.

[JeffVolp]

With 2 separate feeds, I would recommend series-resonant couplers rather than just simple capacitors.  You would need three.  One would couple signals across both phases at the first panel.  And then two others would couple the two panels together (phase A to phase A, and phase B to phase B).  If you have transmitters on both panels, a fourth one across phases on the second panel might be a good idea.  For more info, I wrote a tutorial on couplers:

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_couplers.htm

Be sure to use a tuned coupler that doesn't invert the 120KHz signal, such as the inexpensive SignaLinc.

Jeff

[EL34]

Thanks for the links to the information pages above, good information.

I have 3 of the X10Pro XPCP passive couplers on the way to me.
I have two buildings and 3 panels on my property.
Gonna give them a try and see if I get better signals between the two buildings.
Here's a diagram of my setup

[JeffVolp]

The diagram above is not the same as having two AC feeds to the house.  Your situation is a problem getting a strong enough signal through the Main Breaker Panel, and on to the Garage.  If your Main Breaker Panel feeds just big 240V loads like ours does, it would not need a phase coupler itself.  You certainly should have a coupler at the House sub panel.  One in the Garage will help if you use a transmitter out there.  My concern with a large installation like this is that you may not have a strong enough signal to get reliable control in the garage if you have the usual assortment of signal suckers and other problem loads.  If the passive couplers don't do the job, you may need some sort of signal booster to start with a stronger signal.

Jeff

[HA Dave]

A larger set-up like the one mentioned here.... looks like a perfect app for X10 signal amplification..... am I right Jeff?

[JeffVolp]

A larger set-up like the one mentioned here.... looks like a perfect app for X10 signal amplification..... am I right Jeff?

Yes, but I like people to make their own decisions regarding the XTB.

Jeff

[EL34]

Thanks Jeff,
I'm waiting on the passive couplers to arrive and then I'll go from there.

Actually, believe it or not, I have had very few problems switching x10 stuff on and off from either bulding to the other building.
Once in a while I get a stray light coming on or off by iteslf.

I have a ton of signal suckers here.
I have a cat6 network spread between the two buildings with a total of 4 large UPS battery backups, 3 PC's, TV's, battery chargers, all the usual suspects.
The cm15a X10 USB transmitter is not even close to the house sub panel, it's all the way at one end of the house and it is on the protected side of a large UPS right next to the computer.
Not sure how it is all running so well but it could be better I am sure.

By the way, the exterior main breaker panel I show in the diagram above has only big 240v breakers in it for the AC, Heat pump, both sub panels and the electric range.
The 240v water heater, well pump and clothes dryer are on the house sub panel.

[gil shultz]

Good Afternoon,

From your diagram you feed everything from a single transformer.  The distances and the amount of attenuation from electronic devices (signal suckers [bad term]) you have is attenuation (reducing) the X-10 signal to a very low (non usable) level.  The main disconnect probably would be an ideal place to put a phase bridge.

You may improve your system it by aligning the modules but be careful it can be fatal if you do not know what you are doing. Remember this is cheep stuff and does not work in many locations. 

Most of what I have is hard wired (about 140 circuits) and is very reliable.  I used Acrosser I/O boards in an old window AT box with Windows 95.  For me the X-10 is not reliable or consistent. In my system every time something electronic is plugged in or removed; some stuff starts working and other stuff quits. I have a lot of UPSs and that doesn’t help much either.

You could interface some mini-controllers to an Ethernet appliance (Rabbit makes them) and route your signals via Ethernet to the areas you need them.

Good Luck
Gil Shultz

[JeffVolp]

The main disconnect probably would be an ideal place to put a phase bridge.

That really depends on how far that main disconnect panel is from the other branch circuits, and whether that main panel powers just big 240V loads or other X10 circuits.  The closer the phase coupler is to the X10 distribution point, the better.

We have a similar main disconnect panel feeding a centrally located distribution panel (but no garage panel).  There are over 70 feet of wire between the two panels (including the vertical runs).  The main panel only powers 240V loads.  So here the obvious place for the phase coupler is at the distribution panel.

My experience with X10 is that it is possible to create a X10 system with virtually 100% reliability at far less cost than a hard-wired system.  All it takes are decent signal levels, and elimination of potential noise sources with filters.

Jeff

[EL34]

My X10 system acually runs 96+ % properly.
I have very few problems, even with all the signal suckers and long runs between the two buildings.

I'm just doing the passive couplings for good measure.

Once I hook them up is when I'll probably start having problems according to Muphy's law. 

[gil shultz]

My assumptions were correct in that he has mixed loads.  Everything shown has 240V.  Assume this is single phase then everything also has 115V.  You get 115V from phase to neutral and 240V from phase to phase.  From my background a typical range or dryer is not a big load but both are mixed loads.  For example the dryer motor is normally 115V, the controls are powered by 115V (they have filters that can attenuate the X-10 signal) the heater is 240V.  The range typically has 115V for the controls and 240V for the burners and heating elements.  Again the controls could have filters that can attenuate the X-10 signal.

Depending what is connected to what and how in the different locations effects/affects the X-10 signals.  This then gives you a mixed problem and there are many possible solutions, the best one is one that works.  Which is the best solution? You have to find it.

Good Luck
Gil Shultz