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[Novaguy]

Hello Everyone,

I have a vacation home that has an alarm system with and x10 controller.  I have it hooped up to an appliance module which turns the a/c-heater on via telephone.  I have a problem with the unit working intermittenly and now it seems like it does not work at all.  I have to manually turn the on/off switch on the module itself in order for it to work.  I am at my wits.  I replaced the module, added a boosterlinc and still nothing.  The module is plugged in a recepticle that also has my refrigerator on the other outlet.  I hav unplugged everything in my house and still nothing.  Where do I begin?  It's obvious that the signal is not getting through to the appliance module.  Getting this thing to work properly would be awesome.


Thank you all for your help.

[steven r]

My general approach for intermittent signal problems is in this order:

• Phase coupler (I think just about every house can benefit from one of these.)
• Signal booster (Some need this.)
• Filter (This is 2nd place for some homes.)

I have both a phase coupler and a signal booster. I've been lucky so for not to need any filters. (Let's hope Murphy isn't listening as you have to add one of those for each offending item.) Surge protectors and UPSs (I have 6 of these in use plus 1 as a standby in addition to a whole house protector.) take out the some of the X10 signal and some appliances add noise to the line that may mask the X10 signal. Added noise can be intermittent. eg. When that nearby refrigerator cycles.

I started using X10 products back before personal computers and the internet were around. I continue to consider them to be a great value but as you add more options there are more ways for "Murphy to Play". The more you get involved with it the more you realize it's not for the faint at heart.

[Novaguy]

Thanks for the reply.  I just don't know if I should keep dumping money into this as it seems like the only way to troubleshoot is to keep buying parts until it either works or doesn't.  By that time, I could have just bought a system specifically designed for what I want to do and spent less money.  In reading, I think the next thing I would need to buy would be a coupler/repeater.  That's another $100.  You see what I mean.....where does it end?

[dave w]

Novaguy

Is this correct:
1. At one time you could control the module controlling your HVAC with your telephone (X10 Telephone Responder?) Now you can't

2. You have replaced the appliance module and it still does not work.

You said: "I have to manually turn the on/off switch on the module itself in order for it to work"
How big is the cabin?
What appliance module are you using that has an ON-OFF switch?
How are you controlling your "a/c- heater with an appliance module?
Have you added any electronics in the cabin since that time that the system worked?
Can you plug the BoosterLinc and Telephone responder into the same branch circuit as the appliance module? If this isn't possible, at least get the Boosterlinc and the Telephone responder on the same circuit.
If you "unplugged everything in my house and still nothing" then it likely isn't a noise problem unless it is coming from a 240V appliance, or something new that is hard wired. If it isn't noise then a coupler / amplifier should help. You might also try the Smarthome signal level meter. It WILL tell you if it is noise and help you pinpoint the source.
GL

[Tuicemen]

Thanks for the reply.  I just don't know if I should keep dumping money into this as it seems like the only way to troubleshoot is to keep buying parts until it either works or doesn't.  By that time, I could have just bought a system specifically designed for what I want to do and spent less money.  In reading, I think the next thing I would need to buy would be a coupler/repeater.  That's another $100.  You see what I mean.....where does it end?

You shouldn't need a coupler /repeater for a vaction home. Refrigerators Are to be on there own  recepticle with nothing else same as a microwave oven, puting the module on the same recepticle is asking for problems as you've seen.

[Novaguy]

Thanks again for the replies.  My alarm company set this system up so I will try and do my best to answer your questions.  They have come out numerous times and have never fixed the problem.  I am fed up with them and have since taken the job on myself.

The module I am using is I believe a universal module.  It has two screws on it for contact wires and an on/off button to manually control whatever it is wired to (in my case a thermostat).

It looks a lot like this one, however, I don't think it has the two sliders on the bottom, but I could be mistaken.  This module is plugged into an outlet, which happens to also be shared with my refrigerator.  The system has always worked intermittently and now it just does not work at all.  In an effort to find the problem, the alarm company that installed it has replaced the module several times, and I have purchased a boosterlinc from Smarthome.  The alarm company has also replaced and upgraded my alarm panel.

How big is the cabin?

1200-1500 sq. ft.

How are you controlling your "a/c- heater with an appliance module?

It's a universal module, so when the system is not working, I turn the mudule on, then manually turn on/off the thermostat.

Have you added any electronics in the cabin since that time that the system worked?

No, as a matter of fact, I have unplugged all the appliances and still nothing.

Can you plug the BoosterLinc and Telephone responder into the same branch circuit as the appliance module? If this isn't possible, at least get the Boosterlinc and the Telephone responder on the same circuit.

Don't understand what you mean.

If you "unplugged everything in my house and still nothing" then it likely isn't a noise problem unless it is coming from a 240V appliance, or something new that is hard wired. If it isn't noise then a coupler / amplifier should help. You might also try the Smarthome signal level meter. It WILL tell you if it is noise and help you pinpoint the source.

I just purchased a coupler/repeater and plan on getting it installed this weekend.  I will post the results.

[Novaguy]

You shouldn't need a coupler /repeater for a vaction home

How come?  What is the difference between a vacation home and primary residence?

[Tuicemen]

I was asuming it was a small place I guess not    In any case you shouldn't have it pluged into the same outlet as the refrigerator. Can you move it to another outlet?If the outlet is wired so it has a different fuse/breaker for each plug then that shouldn't be a problem.

[roger1818]

How big is the cabin?

1200-1500 sq. ft.

That is small enough that a coupler/repeater is overkill.  A passive coupler should be more than adequate which I do highly reccomend.  A coupler/repeater probably won't do you any harm if you don't mind the cost.

The first thing I would do is unplug the BoosterLinc.  One thing that most people don't know is that in many cases they can actually make the problem worse.  There are certain places where they are useful, but in most cases they are useless!

[dave w]

Quote
Can you plug the BoosterLinc and Telephone responder into the same branch circuit as the appliance module? If this isn't possible, at least get the Boosterlinc and the Telephone responder on the same circuit.


Don't understand what you mean.

Novaguy
I meant to get the Boosterlinc on the same circuit as the device you are using to send X10 control by the telephone. I assumed you were using the X10 "Telephone Responder" to answer your phone call to turn ON or OFF the X10 Universal module.  Having the Boosterlinc and the telephone controller on the same circuits would ensure the telephone control signal gets amplified (at least on one side of the incoming power). If you are getting a repeater / coupler (which will amplify the telephone controller on BOTH side of the incoming power) it should solve your problem.

Once your repeater is operational, unplug the Boosterlinc, otherwise the repeater and the Boosterlinc may be at war with each other.

Refrigerators and microwaves are on dedicated outlets because of the current they draw which has nothing to do with the problems you are having. If your problem is created by interferirng noise from the refridgerator, moving the Universal module to a seperate outlet isn't going to solve the intermitent response problem unless it puts the Unversal module and the telephone controller electrically closer togeather, or more specifically on the same 120V leg of the incomming power. The new repeater/coupler may do just that because it amplifies the X10 signal on the originating 120v leg and couples it to the opposite 120v leg.

GL

[Novaguy]

OK,

first off, thank you all who have replied.  I have since installed my coupler/repeater and I am still having the same problem.  That makes this project well over $250 and I still do not have any success.  I have tried everything that was recommmended on here, with no change in status.  It apprears that the alarm system is sending out the signal, because when I push the test button on the coupler repeater it blinks and goes steady when I send the signal.  The universal module is working manually, but I don't believe it is receiving the signal.  Could it be a faulty module that allows it to work manually and not receive signals?  I am at my witts with this sytem and I don't want to spend another dime.  What should I do next?

[billy]

Novaguy,

Could you please give us a list of all the X10 components in your system with the model #'s?  Also the addresses (House Code - Unit Code) of each module.

[Novaguy]

Billy,

http://www.aesecurity.com/lynx.htm  This is my alarm system.  It's an ademco Lynx and the module is the one I posted above.  The house code is on 1A

[billy]

Novaguy,

How far away is the 1361X10 Transformer/X10 Interface away from the Universal Module?
(Removed Piic)
As a test you may want to try and move the Universal Module to the same outlet as the Transformer.
This would eliminate any house wiring problems and validate that the units still function correctly.
Might have to use a short extension cord.

 
 

[roger1818]

I have since installed my coupler/repeater and I am still having the same problem.  That makes this project well over $250 and I still do not have any success.  I have tried everything that was recommmended on here, with no change in status.  It apprears that the alarm system is sending out the signal, because when I push the test button on the coupler repeater it blinks and goes steady when I send the signal.  The universal module is working manually, but I don't believe it is receiving the signal.  Could it be a faulty module that allows it to work manually and not receive signals?  I am at my witts with this sytem and I don't want to spend another dime.  What should I do next?

The first thing I would do is double check that the Coupler/Repeater is connected to both phases (breakers beside each other aren't necessarily on opposite phases).  You can do this by connecting an AC volt meter across the two breakers; if you measure something close to 220V they are on opposite phases.

Secondly I would temporarily move the module closer (electrically) to the "X10 Interface" (preferably on the other plug in the duplex) and test if it works.  If it does, you have a problem with powerline noise.  For further help debugging the problem, check out a Troubleshooting guide that I am writting (it is still under development).